McKay's Corner

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi dies

2008-02-07T00:50:00.000-04:00

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi dies
Guru who taught Beatles meditation died 'peacefully,' spokesman says
The Associated Press

updated 9:53 p.m. ET, Tues., Feb. 5, 2008 UpdateTimeStamp('633378596140630000');

THE HAGUE, Netherlands - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, a guru to the Beatles who introduced the West to transcendental meditation, has died at his home in the Dutch town of Vlodrop, a spokesman said Tuesday. He was thought to be 91 years old.
"He died peacefully at about 7 p.m.," said Bob Roth, a spokesman for the Transcendental Meditation movement that the Maharishi founded. He said his death appeared to be due to "natural causes, his age."
Once dismissed as hippie mysticism, the Hindu practice of mind control that Maharishi taught, called transcendental meditation, gradually gained medical respectability.
He began teaching transcendental meditation in 1955 and brought the technique to the United States in 1959. But the movement really took off after the Beatles visited his ashram in India in 1968, although he had a famous falling out with the rock stars when he discovered them using drugs at his Himalayan retreat.
With the help of celebrity endorsements, Maharishi — a Hindi-language title for Great Seer — parlayed his interpretations of ancient scripture into a multi-million-dollar global empire.
© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Bhutto shot in the neck before her killer blew himself Up

2007-12-28T02:10:00.000-04:00

Benazir Bhutto at the rally in Rawalpindi

yesterday, shortly before she was killed.

Picture: EPA

(By MARGARET NEIGHBOUR)

PAKISTAN was teetering on the brink of civil war last night, following the assassination of Benazir Bhutto by suspected Muslim extremists.
Ms Bhutto was shot in the neck and chest by a suicide bomber who then blew himself up, moments after the former prime minister addressed supporters in the city of Rawalpindi. As condemnation poured in from around the world, opposition leaders in Pakistan – a key ally of Britain and the West in the war on terror – warned of a "very real danger" of rival factions tearing the country apart.Riaz Malik, of the opposition Pakistan Movement for Justice party, said: "The impact will be that Pakistan is in more turmoil – it will be the start of civil war in Pakistan." Ms Bhutto had returned to Pakistan from exile in October. She survived an assassination attempt on the day of her arrival and was campaigning ahead of next month's elections when she was killed along with at least 20 others.Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif yesterday said his party would boycott the 8 January poll and demanded that the president, Pervez Musharraf resign immediately.He added: "Musharraf is the cause of all the problems."The United States, which sees Pakistan as a key ally in its battle against al-Qaeda, had championed Ms Bhutto as a popular leader who might help to return the country to a civilian-led democracy after nearly a decade of military rule.George Bush, the president, said: "The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan's democracy. Those who committed this crime must be brought to justice."Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, said Ms Bhutto "risked everything in her attempt to win democracy in Pakistan and she has been assassinated by cowards who are afraid of democracy".He added: "The terrorists must not be allowed to kill democracy in Pakistan, and this atrocity strengthens our resolve that the terrorists will not win there, here, or anywhere in the world."Pakistan put its paramilitary forces on red alert across the country in the wake of the assassination.The unrest was fiercest in Ms Bhutto's native Sindh province and its capital, Karachi. Tyres were set on fire on many roads, and stone-throwing and shooting were reported in many places. Most shops and markets shut down.At least 20 vehicles were set alight in the central Sindh town of Hyderabad.There were also small protests in Rawalpindi and the nearby capital, Islamabad.Protesters blocked roads with burning tyres and chanted slogans against Mr Musharraf in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani Kashmir in the mountainous north.MJ Gohel, executive director of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, said: "The ramifications are enormous. There will be more violence and if Musharraf imposes another state of emergency, there could be further crackdowns and protests."We are looking at a political vacuum if the elections don't take place. The radical Islamists could start occupying that vacuum and operating from within it. "Pakistan is home to al-Qaeda and the Taleban and is also home to nuclear weapons and long-range missiles… all of which have repercussions for the West and the world."Farzana Shaikh, an expert on Pakistan and an associate fellow at the Chatham House analysis group in London, said: "The electoral process has been stopped in its tracks. "There is a very real possibility Musharraf will decide the situation has got out of control and that he needs to impose emergency rule again."She said Pakistan was entering "uncharted waters", which could lead to instability in a region that has seen three wars fought between Pakistan and its nuclear-armed neighbour, India.Ms Shaikh added: "This is not the first crisis Pakistan has faced since its inception in 1947, but I would say it is the worst convergence of crises we have seen."Nicolas Sarkozy, the president of France, called the killing odious. He added: "France, like the European Union, is particularly attached to stability and democracy in Pakistan."The UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, called the assassination an "assault on stability", while the Security Council went into consultations to discuss the killing.Death must not derail the democratic processTHE assassination of Benazir Bhutto is a tragedy for her country and for all those who hope for greater democracy, peace and stability in the wider region of south and south-west Asia.Any development which threatens the stability of Pakistan is critical to the security of the region, and international peace and security, for at least three reasons.First, Pakistan is a nuclear weapons' state. The prospect of jihadi extremists seizing control of its nuclear facilities is a nightmare scenario. They might well attempt to reignite conflict with India and could try to use blackmail or pass expertise and nuclear materials to al-Qaeda.Second, closer international co-operation with Pakistan is crucial if the Taleban and its al-Qaeda allies are to be prevented from undermining the democratically elected government of Afghanistan.According to intelligence, the Taleban is able to move substantial amounts of weaponry and equipment, as well as recruits, across the border from Pakistan. If the extremists undermine the government in Pakistan, they would be able to provide far greater support for the Taleban, enabling them to wage a kind of proxy war against the international forces supporting Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president. Last, if extremists succeed in undermining the Pakistan government, this would give a huge boost for al-Qaeda's global jihad.All these concerns should concentrate the minds of UN Security Council members on seeking urgent measures to help the authorities in Pakistan to maintain internal security and hold genuinely free and successful elections. We should also work to encourage those who favour democratisation in Pakistan to continue their efforts, despite all the dangers. Benazir Bhutto's brave efforts to spread democracy and moderation should inspire others to follow her example.• Paul Wilkinson is Emeritus Professor of International Relations at the University of St AndrewsCOUNTDOWN TO CARNAGE
49 6 OCT: General Pervez Musharraf wins a new presidential term in a vote by legislators. Supreme Court holds off confirming legality of vote.• 19 OCT: Benazir Bhutto returns from eight-year exile.• 2 NOV: Supreme Court reconvenes to decide if Musharraf was eligible to stand for re-election while army chief.• 3 NOV: Musharraf imposes emergency rule, detaining thousands of opposition politicians and lawyers.• 11 NOV: Musharraf says election will take place on 8 January.• 13 NOV: Bhutto under house arrest for a week.• 22 NOV: Commonwealth suspends Pakistan.• 25 NOV: Former prime minister Nawaz Sharif returns from exile.• 28 NOV: Musharraf hands command of the army to General Ashfaq Kayani and is sworn in as civilian leader the following day.• 15 DEC: Musharraf lifts state of emergency and restores constitution.

The full article contains 1154 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Last Updated: 27 December 2007 11:25 PM

What is all of this Contraversy surrounding the Yellow Ribons?

2007-10-22T14:43:00.001-03:00

I have been following the Local News publications, and hearing all about this So-Called Peace Coalition. What these Peace-nics don't seem to understand, is that they are unknowingly protesting the very peace they seek to preserve.

Our brave Soldiers are called to defend this Nation against all hostile forces, whether these forces come in the manner of a combined Military units or, a small few malcontents. They are still called to do whatever is necessary to insure that Peace and safety and the overall Security of this Nation of Canada is maintained.

I would most sincerely suggest that these Misled individuals who are running this Peace Coalition, remember this. if they were in a Middle Eastern Country that is Governed by the Religion of Islam, and also where Shariah Law is the justice of the land that they would not be able to protest anything unless it is sanctioned by the islamic state.

The Death of Canadian Wrestling Continues to make headlines

2007-06-29T18:41:00.000-03:00

The Globe and Mail

National News,

Friday, June 29, 2007, p. A9

THE CHRIS BENOIT CASE: WIKIPEDIA ENTRY SAID WRESTLER'S WIFE HAD DIED

"Death noted online before bodies found"

Harry R. WeberAP; Associated Press;

Associated Press
Atlanta GA - Investigators are looking into who altered an online encyclopedia's entry for Canadian wrestler Chris Benoit to mention his wife's death hours before authorities discovered the bodies of the couple and their seven-year-old son.
Mr. Benoit's Wikipedia entry was altered early Monday to say that the wrestler had missed a match two days earlier because of his wife's death.
A Wikipedia official, Cary Bass, said yesterday that the entry was made by someone using an Internet protocol address registered in Stamford, Conn., where World Wrestling Entertainment is based.
An IP address, a unique series of numbers carried by every machine connected to the Internet, does not have to be broadcast from where it is registered. The bodies were found in Mr. Benoit's home in suburban Atlanta, and it's not known where the posting was sent from, Mr. Bass said.
Mr. Benoit strangled his wife and suffocated his son on the weekend, placing Bibles next to their bodies, before hanging himself on the cable of a weight-machine in his home, authorities said. No motive was offered for the killings, which were found Monday.
Mr. Benoit's father, Michael, said yesterday that a private memorial service will be held in Canada for the wrestler, and services for his wife and son probably will be in Daytona Beach, Fla. He did not give a date.
Also yesterday, federal drug agents said they had raided the west Georgia office of a doctor who prescribed testosterone to Mr. Benoit.
The raid at Phil Astin's office in Carrollton began Wednesday night and concluded early yesterday, said agent Chuvalo Truesdell, a spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration. No arrests were made.
Hours before the raid, Dr. Astin told The Associated Press he had treated Mr. Benoit for low testosterone levels, which he said likely originated from previous steroid use.
Among other things, investigators were looking for Mr. Benoit's medical records to see whether he had been prescribed steroids and, if so, whether that prescription was appropriate, according to a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity. Dr. Astin could not be reached for comment yesterday.
Mr. Benoit's page on Wikipedia, a reference site that allows users to add and edit information, was updated at 12:01 a.m. Monday, about 14 hours before authorities say the bodies were found. The reason he missed a match Saturday night was "stemming from the death of his wife Nancy," it said.
WWE attorney Jerry McDevitt said that to his knowledge, no one at the WWE knew Nancy Benoit was dead before her body was found Monday afternoon. Text messages released by officials show that messages from Mr. Benoit's cellphone were being sent to co-workers a few hours after the Wikipedia posting.
Category: National and International PoliticsUniform subject(s): Investigations; Internet, information technologies and multimediaSubject(s) - The Globe and Mail : Murder; SuicideName(s): Chris BenoitEdition: NationalLength: Medium, 381 words

Canadian Professional Wrestler Chris Benoit Dead at age 40 Along with his wife and Son; What really havened. you tell me.

2007-06-27T10:16:00.000-03:00

The Globe and Mail International News,

Tuesday, June 26, 2007, p. A15
http://www.globeandmail.com

UNITED STATES

Canadian wrestler found dead along with wife, son
Matt Hartley And Unnati GandhiAP CP; With reports from Associated Press, Canadian Press
Chris Benoit, one of the most accomplished Canadian professional wrestlers of all time, was found dead in his suburban Atlanta home alongside his wife Nancy and seven-year-old son Daniel, according to a statement released yesterday by World Wrestling Entertainment.
Police said they were investigating the deaths as homicides. Lieutenant Tommy Pope of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department said results of autopsies on Mr. Benoit's wife and son were expected today.
Reached at her Edmonton home yesterday, the wrestler's mother, Margaret Benoit, was distraught. "Please. I can't talk right now. Not right now," she said between heavy sobs.
Mr. Benoit has two other children, Megan and David, but it was not clear where they were yesterday.
Police refused to comment further, saying only that an investigation is continuing.
Despite a working WWE storyline that was supposed to see WWE chairman Vince McMahon die, the wrestling outfit acknowledged that Mr. Benoit's death was decidedly not fictional. The WWE cancelled its live "Raw" wrestling card Monday night in Corpus Christi, Tex.
"We at the WWE can only offer our condolences to the extended family of Chris Benoit," Mr. McMahon said in a TV tribute, eyes welling with tears and voice cracking. "The only other thing we can do at this moment is pay tribute to Chris Benoit."
Mr. Benoit was scheduled to compete at the WWE's "Vengeance" pay-per-view event in Houston on Sunday night, but withdrew due to "personal reasons."
A fierce but respected competitor, Mr. Benoit, 40, grew up in Montreal and later moved to Edmonton, where he attended Archbishop O'Leary High School, according to his WWE biography. In the mid-1980s, he was a member of the iconic Calgary-based Stampede Wrestling organization run by Stu Hart, a famous trainer of professional wrestlers and the father of former WWE Champion Bret (Hitman) Hart.
Mr. Benoit also spent time wrestling in Japan before catching on with Extreme Championship Wrestling, and eventually the WWE in the United States.
The news of Mr. Benoit's death was the top story on local Edmonton television newscasts yesterday.
Known as "The Canadian Crippler" and later dubbed "The Rabid Wolverine," Mr. Benoit was beloved by fans for his blue-collar work ethic and hearty smile, missing tooth and all.
Although sometimes criticized for a lack of personality on the microphone, Mr. Benoit's proficiency in the ring earned him a reputation as one of the great technicians in pro wrestling history. His signature moves included a flying headbutt from the top rope and a shoulder-straining submission hold known as the "Crippler Crossface."
A veteran of the squared circle for more than 20 years, Mr. Benoit was a former WWE World Heavyweight Champion, tag team and Intercontinental Champion.
In what was arguably his most famous match, Mr. Benoit defeated Triple H and Shawn Michaels to capture the WWE World Championship in the main event at Wrestlemania XX at New York's Madison Square Garden.
Category: National and International PoliticsUniform subject(s): Sports and leisureSubject(s) - The Globe and Mail : Wrestling; MurderName(s): Chris Benoit; Nancy Benoit; Daniel BenoitCompany(ies) - The Globe and Mail : World Wrestling EntertainmentStory type(s): IllustrationLength: Medium, 398 words
© 2007 The Globe and Mail. All rights reserved.
Doc. : news·20070626·GM·0WRESTLER26

Is Russion President Vladimir Putin Truly A Dangerous Throeat to The rest of the World?

2007-06-05T18:51:00.000-03:00

Tensions between Russia and the West are escalating to a level not seen since the days of the former USSR. Picture: Getty

Trident vital because of Putin nuclear threat, hints Downing St JAMES KIRKUP POLITICAL EDITOR

Russia a contributing factor in government case for Trident Putin ups rhetoric over US plan to deploy missiles in eastern Europe Warning threatens to cast shadow over G8 summit beginning tommorrow Key quote"If a part of the strategic nuclear potential of the US appears in Europe and, in the opinion of our military specialists, will threaten us, then we will have to take appropriate steps in response. We will have to have new targets in Europe" - VLADIMIR PUTIN Story in full RUSSIA'S threat to target its nuclear missiles on Europe helps to justify Britain's decision to retain the Trident system, government sources suggested yesterday.
Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, on Sunday stepped up his rhetoric over US plans to deploy anti-missile batteries in eastern Europe, warning that Moscow would respond by setting "new targets in Europe" for Russian nuclear missiles.
The warning threatens to cast a shadow over the G8 summit in Germany starting tomorrow, which was already facing awkward discussions over a global agreement on climate change.
Trying to lower tensions before that meeting, Germany's chancellor Angela Merkel last night downplayed Mr Putin's remarks. "The Cold War is over. Russia is our partner," she said.
But both the White House and NATO yesterday called Mr Putin's comments "unhelpful and unwelcome." And Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, promised to have a "frank" discussion with the Russian leader at the G8 summit in Heiligendamm.
No 10 yesterday tacitly conceded that the prospect of growing bellicosity in Moscow had played a part in the decision to renew Britain's deterrent.
"The case for Trident rests on the fact that we are facing an uncertain world," said Tony Blair's official spokesman when asked if there was any connection between Russian policy and the Trident decision. Asked if Russian actions contributed to that uncertainty, he replied only: "An uncertain world is an uncertain world."
Making the case for replacing Trident earlier this year, ministers were careful not to explicitly mention Russia, to avoid triggering a diplomatic row.
But one defence source involved in nuclear policy yesterday privately drew a clear connection in the Trident decision and the prospect of growing Russian hostility. The source said: "Of course Russia is a factor - how can it not be when they have a president who goes in for this sort of rhetoric?"
Dr Lee Willetts, of the Royal United Services Institute, a defence think-tank, said that while the government will not say so explicitly, there is "no doubt that Russia was paramount in government thinking about the deterrent - a nuclear power like Russia just has to be considered".
Dr Willetts said that Mr Putin's comments did not constitute an immediate threat of an attack, but did illustrate Russia's political shift towards a more assertive, nationalist approach to international relations.
Mr Putin's warning is the latest ratcheting-up of his protests about Washington's "Star Wars" missile defence system.
The proposed missile shield would see interceptor batteries stationed in Poland and the Czech Republic ready to shoot down missiles fired at European targets. Russia has already suspended its place in a Cold War-era arms-control treaty in anger at the US plan.
"If a part of the strategic nuclear potential of the US appears in Europe and, in the opinion of our military specialists, will threaten us, then we will have to take appropriate steps in response. We will have to have new targets in Europe," Mr Putin said.
The Prime Minister has offered to host parts of the US shield in Britain, and Mr Blair's spokesman yesterday insisted that the proposed missile system was aimed only at defending against "rogue states" like Iran and North Korea.
"The missile defence system is not aimed at Russia," he said, adding that because of the size of Russia's arsenal, the US system would in any case be "ineffective" at stopping a Russian attack.
Tensions between Britain and Russia are particularly acute because of the death of Alexander Litvenenko, the former KGB agent poisoned in London.
The Crown Prosecution Service has accused Andrei Lugovoy, another former Russian agent, of the murder, and sought his extradition from Russia , a request Mr Putin has described as "idiotic".
Mr Blair's spokesman hit back yesterday, saying: "Murder has to be taken very seriously. The evidence that we put forward is very serious and therefore I think it should be responded to in a serious way."
Despite yesterday's words, Mr Blair is likely to hold a private meeting with Mr Putin at the Heiligendamm summit.
Heiligendamm is an isolated coastal resort surrounded by intense security, with protesters gathering in the city of Rostock 15 miles away.
Violence between protesters and police broke out again yesterday when 8,500 anti-G8 demonstrators marched through the town. About 50 people were arrested after throwing stones and bottles at police.
More than 400 officers were injured on Saturday by protesters throwing rocks and bottles, including 30 police hospitalised with broken bones and cuts. Organisers said 520 demonstrators were hurt, 20 seriously.
ALARM BELL SOUNDS OVER CONTROLS ON OIL AND GAS SUPPLIES
SOME analysts joke that tensions between Russia and the West can be plotted on the same chart as the international oil price.
The reason is that rising world energy prices have done much to bring Russia back from the growing economic chaos that it suffered in the late 1990s, and allowed its president, Vladimir Putin, to take an ever more assertive approach to foreign affairs.
With the world's largest proven reserves of natural gas and vast oil supplies, Russia wields increasing economic power over the users of that energy. In the past two years, Russia has cut off natural gas supplies to Ukraine and Belarus, and threatened Georgia, trying to bring the former Soviet states back under Moscow's influence.
Those tactics have also hit gas supplies to western Europe, and helped persuade UK ministers that Britain needs more nuclear power stations, to avoid being dependent on Russian energy imports.
Western leaders are increasingly concerned about democracy and human rights in Russia: several journalists have been murdered in the past year and opposition groups say they are victimised.
There are growing and persistent rumours that Mr Putin, a former KGB officer, will not step down from the presidency next year as the constitution demands, either openly extending his term or moving to another post from which he will continue to control the country.
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Last updated: 05-Jun-07 01:05 BST
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Robert Mugabe is Truly A Man Without Honuor

2007-06-03T19:40:00.000-03:00

Robert Mugabe has let Zimbabwe slip into crisis, with schoolchildren forced to queue up for food and hundreds of thousands left homeless. Photograph: Getty

'Man without Honour'

MURDO MACLEOD
THE first shots of Argentina's invasion of the Falklands were being fired as Lord Carrington, the British foreign secretary, drew up the letter asking Edinburgh University to consider giving Robert Mugabe his honorary degree.
According to documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, Carrington wrote to the university's then principal, Dr John Burnett, on April 2, 1982, asking Edinburgh whether it would consider bestowing a degree on the Zimbabwean leader.
Carrington, who had met Mugabe during the Lancaster House negotiations on the future of the African country, and who had visited Harare, then called Salisbury, wrote: "I was struck by the intensely high regard that Mr Mugabe holds for our ancient institutions in the field of learning."
The foreign secretary added that Mugabe was a scholar in his own right, having gained a degree from London University by correspondence and having taught university classes. He continued: "Despite our divergence of view on a number of matters, [I] respect him for his intellectual qualities and stature as the leader of his country."
That letter was one of Carrington's last actions as foreign secretary, resigning two days later in the wake of the failed intelligence that led to the Falklands invasion. But his successor, Sir Francis Pym, continued to follow up the issue - even while war in the South Atlantic was raging - and Edinburgh University's Senate agreed unanimously to award the degree for his services to education, in Africa.
So it was that on July 20, 1984, Mugabe arrived in Edinburgh for the conferring of his degree, of doctor honoris causa. A fortnight later, the Foreign Office wrote to the university to say that their man in Harare had reported that: "Mr Mugabe was delighted by the dignified ceremony at the university and by the flattering laudation which he received."
It now seems incredible that Mugabe, the former guerrilla leader renowned around the world for brutal repression of opponents, was ever awarded the honorary degree that will be finally withdrawn by the university this week.
But, at the time, the university and the UK Foreign Office were merely part of the wave of enthusiasm for the newly established Zimbabwean democracy. In contrast to the chaos of countries such as Mozambique and Angola, and the internationally shunned apartheid regime in South Africa, Zimbabwe was a country where whites and blacks seemed to be working together, despite the legacy of a brutal civil war.
However, the euphoria has since evaporated as the true face of the Mugabe regime has become clear to the outside world. Mugabe's dismal record on human rights, along with his calamitous mishandling of the Zimbabwean economy, bringing hunger and poverty to the former breadbasket of Africa, have led to a growing clamour for the degree to be revoked.
Last March, Scotland on Sunday launched its campaign to have the degree officially withdrawn following a new series of carefully orchestrated attacks by Mugabe supporters against peaceful opposition events.
His police attacked and broke up a prayer rally which had been banned from convening. They arrested activists of the Movement for Democratic Change including party leader Morgan Tsvangirai, who was severely beaten while in detention, suffering a fractured skull.
Scotland on Sunday's online petition attracted support from across the world. Meanwhile, a number of prominent graduates and recipients of honorary degrees backed the campaign. Two of them, composer James MacMillan and writer Liz Lochhead, threatened to return their degrees in protest if the university failed to act speedily.
The campaign moved to the Westminster Parliament when Edinburgh South MP Nigel Griffiths tabled a motion, asking for the degree to be revoked, in the House of Commons. At the university itself, students - along with the current and former rectors, Mark Ballard and Robin Harper, both Green MSPs - led calls for Mugabe to be stripped of his degree.
Behind the scenes, the university authorities changed their own rules to allow a degree to be removed, after first checking whether they had the legal authority to do so. In April, the university's Academic Senate commissioned three of its own professors, including a legal expert, to examine whether there were grounds for removing the award.
The "three wise men" will this week report to the Senate that information about Mugabe, which was not to hand in 1984, has since become available. Their report links Mugabe and his regime to brutal purges in the south-west of the country against the minority Matabele people in the early 1980s.
At the time of the incidents, many observers defended the regime, claiming the killings and beatings were the result of a lack of control over an army fighting against South African subversion and struggling to control opponents intent on murdering white farmers and destabilising the country. Many believed, moreover, that the accusations were the result of propaganda from Apartheid-era South Africa.
But firm evidence of the scale of the mass killings, and the Mugabe government's role in the atrocities, began to emerge during the late 1980s and early 1990s. Authoritative reports from Catholic missionaries said that Mugabe's regime had been behind the killing of about 20,000 of his fellow countrymen. By 1996, Mugabe was well on his way to becoming an international pariah.
In 2000, the seizure of white-run farms led to the deaths of 11 white farmers and 115 black farm workers. A further 200,000 black farm workers are estimated to have lost their homes during the attacks, which were condemned by the UK and the European Union.
The 2002 election was widely condemned for irregularities, including obstruction and intimidation of opposition members.
In 2005, Mugabe's regime began to demolish unauthorised shanty houses in slum areas of the country with the government claiming the move was aimed at illegally built, disease-rife shacks. However, the move was widely seen as an attack on opposition strongholds and condemned by the United Nations, which estimated that 700,000 Zimbabweans had been made homeless.
The plight of Zimbabwe under Mugabe remains an international sore. Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has been vocal in his criticism of Mugabe in the past, came under attack from one of his own backbenchers last week for his failure to speak out over Zimbabwe during his visit to Africa. Blair instead confined himself to voicing support for the mediation efforts of South African president Thabo Mbeki, who has in turn been criticised for his policy of quiet diplomacy towards the Zimbabwean dictator.
Attention will now switch to next year's Zimbabwean elections, which observers predict will be marred by intimidation, massive vote-rigging and a skewed media. However, while local media are likely to ignore the decision to strip Mugabe of his university degree, it will receive massive coverage in the South African media, which is eagerly consumed in Zimbabwe.
Bruised and bloodied by Mugabe's thugs, the Zimbabwean opposition will also be energised by the knowledge that they are not alone in their condemnation of the dictator.
Sir Nicholas Winterton, the vice-chairman of the Zimbabwe All-Party Parliamentary Group, said: "Removing his degree will have an impact. Mugabe will no doubt dismiss this as 'colonialism' as he always does. But it will have an effect on the people of Zimbabwe and I believe on more moderate members of his party and government, who will realise that the world is not ignoring or forgetting the plight of the people of Zimbabwe."
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Last updated: 02-Jun-07 00:52 BST
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Ronnie Milsap is one of my all time favorite Country and cross over Entertainers

2007-04-27T02:01:00.001-03:00

Ronnie Milsap one of the most Dynamic Entertainers of all time. He is truly a Legend in his own Time.

Ronnie Milsap ranks as the pre-eminent country soul singer of his generation. He also represents much more than any two-word definition can convey: a humble, overtly friendly fellow with a talent as vast and multi-dimensional as the American South. Milsap provided country music with one of its most important voices as the genre was moving beyond its rural roots into the mainstream of modern entertainment.
Country music couldn’t have found a man more suited to lead the charge. Steeped in the mountain music of the North Carolina hills and schooled in classical piano, Milsap early in life found inspiration in a wide variety of music. Even as he mastered Beethoven and Mozart, his heart belonged to hardcore country and rhythm-and-blues -- music he heard beamed from powerful radio stations located in Nashville. Those earthy sounds about life and love provided a young, impoverished blind boy with a connection to a world beyond the harsh reality of his daily existence.
Eventually, an adult Milsap forged his myriad of influences into a cosmopolitan style of country music that helped revolutionize Nashville. His track record speaks loud and clear: 40 # 1 hits, Over 25 million records sold,Seven Grammy Awards, Four Academy of Country Music Awards, and Eight Country Music Association Awards. Together, they underscore Milsap’s position as one of the best-loved and most enduring artists in country music history.
As always, the eternally optimistic Milsap forges ahead, positive about what the future may hold. That spirit not only comes through in his music; it’s also what helped him to overcome the unfathomable difficulties he faced long before he ever put a song on the radio.Born into dire poverty in the Appalachian town of Robbinsville, North Carolina, Milsap's mother viewed her newborn's blindness as punishment from God. Shortly after his first birthday, he was cast off and given to his grandmother to raise. At age six, he was sent to the Governor Moorehead State School for the Blind in Raleigh, and the young boy faced barbaric disciplinary treatment all through his grade school and high school years.All along, the sightless child took refuge in music and the radio. Moorehead put him through strict classical music training, a program that was heightened after the young boy early on showed the innate talent of a prodigy. At the same time, he obsessively listened to the radio, especially the late-night programs of country music, gospel and rhythm-and-blues.Those duo pursuits -- demanding classical study and an intense pop-music obsession -- served Milsap well. By age 20, he released his first single, "Total Disaster," produced by Huey Meaux on Princess Records. By 1965, the young blind pianist and singer was recording for renowned Scepter Records in New York. His first single, "Never Had It So Good," written by Ashford and Simpson, was a top five hit on the Billboard soul chart. He went on to record R&B-styled songs in Houston and Memphis for a variety of labels, including Warner Bros. and Reprise in 1971 and 1972.Even then, the talent was obvious; it just wasn't getting heard. The turning point came when Milsap moved from Memphis to Nashville on December 26, 1972, to take a regular gig at the King of the Road hotel, at the time a top music industry hangout. He became friends with music publisher, Tom Collins, who would work on Milsap's initial Nashville demo recordings as well as produce his early hit albums. He also hooked up with heavyweight artist manager, Jack Johnson, who also worked with Charley Pride.
In April 1973, the blind singer began a long-lasting association with RCA Records. His 40 #1 hits stand as a testament to his success and staying power as a country artist; only the late Conway Twitty scored more top country hits, and his included many duets with Loretta Lynn.
While looking back at the enormous impact he had on country music in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s, the ebullient singer insists on looking ahead as well. "I've been very fortunate to have had a lot of successful records," he says. "Now its time to make some more."

Does Every Nation of this World Truly respect Human Rights or, Do They just Pay it Lip Service

2007-04-20T20:39:00.000-03:00

UNITED NATIONS
1948-1998
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
(other language versions)

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories.

"PREAMBLE:
Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people, Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law, Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations, Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom, Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms, Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Article I.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article II.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article III.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article IV.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article V.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article VI.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article VII.
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article VIII.
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article IX.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article X.
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article XI.
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article XII.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article XIII.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article XIV.
(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article XV.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article XVI.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article XVII.
(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article XVIII.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article XIX.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article XX.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article XXI.
(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article XXII.
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article XXIII.
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article XXIV.
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article XXV.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article XXVI.
(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article XXVII.
(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article XXVIII.
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article XXIX.
(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article XXX.
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

Scotman.com Tuesday 27 February 2007 Radical Muslim fears torture after court rules on deportation; Gerri Peev Political Correspondent

2007-02-27T20:42:00.000-04:00

GERRI PEEV POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
gpeev@scotsman.com)

A LANDMARK court ruling could pave the way for the government to return terror suspects to countries with records of torture if their regimes pledge not to mistreat them.
Abu Qatada, 46, a radical Muslim preacher, faces deportation to Jordan after the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) yesterday dismissed his appeal against being sent back to his native country.

The ruling was a crucial test of the government's controversial policy of deporting suspects to countries such as Algeria and Jordan, and paves the way for suspects to be returned to other countries with poor human rights records.
While the government has said it will deport only to countries with which it has signed a memorandum of understanding that they will not be mistreated, campaigners claim the "paper promises" are not enough.
Under international torture bans enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights, suspects cannot even be transferred to countries where they face a substantial risk of torture.
Qatada - whose real name is Omar Mahmoud Mohammed Othman - was once described as Osama bin Laden's "right-hand man in Europe" - although he has publicly denied this.
His lawyers warned during hearings last May that he would be tortured if sent back to Jordan. He also faced the prospect of trial by military court using evidence extracted under torture.
But the judgment yesterday concluded: "There is no real risk of persecution of the appellant were he now to be returned with the safeguards and in the circumstances which now apply to him."
The judgment said it was in the Jordanians' interests to observe the memorandum of understanding in a "transparent and conscientious" way.
However, the court accepted that senior members of the Jordanian military police had probably "sanctioned or turned a blind eye" to torture in the past.
It added that Qatada's views had hardened in recent years and he had given advice to many terrorist groups and individuals.
John Reid, the Home Secretary, welcomed the ruling, saying: "It is our firm belief that these agreements strike the right balance between allowing us to deport individuals who threaten the security of this country and safeguarding the rights of these individuals on their return."
But Gareth Peirce, Mr Qatada's solicitor, said her client would seek leave to appeal.
Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, the civil rights group, said: "Dodgy little 'assurances' from regimes that practise torture convince few outside government."
Tim Hancock, Amnesty International UK's campaigns director, said Amnesty had submitted material to SIAC documenting the routine use of torture in Jordan including beatings on the soles of the feat while a victim is handcuffed and suspended from a ceiling for hours.
• BETHLEHEM-BORN Abu Qatada is a radical preacher whose influence on terrorists worldwide was said to be incalculable.
His alleged links are believed to extend to extremist groups in Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Libya, Egypt and Afghanistan and as far as Indonesia and Australia.
He came to Britain in September 1993 on a forged United Arab Emirates passport, claiming asylum for himself, his wife and three children.
Within months of the 11 September attacks, Qatada became one of Britain's most wanted men after going on the run, believing that new anti-terrorism laws were aimed at him.
Qatada has always denied claims that he is al-Qaeda's European ambassador and the mujahideen's head in Britain.
Related topic
Terrorism in the UKhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=758
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=308192007
Last updated: 27-Feb-07 00:13 GMT
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Christiane Amanpour Is Once of the World's Most widley known and Respected Journalists

2007-02-04T00:26:00.000-04:00

Christiane Amanpour
Truly one of my favorite World News Correspondents

I like her style and the objectivity she uses through her News Documentaries, She is very thorough and does not stop until she gets to the truth of the matter.

Christiane Amanpour is CNN’s chief international correspondent based in London. Amanpour has reported on most crises from the world’s many hotspots including Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, Somalia, Rwanda and the Balkans.
Her assignments range from exclusive interviews with numerous world leaders to reporting from the heart of war zones for which she has received wide acclaim, particularly for her extensive coverage of the conflict in the Balkans.
In 2005 Amanpour travelled the world following the major stories that developed. From Tsunami-hit Sri Lanka to the hurricane devastation in Louisiana, Amanpour reported on the many natural disasters that hit the planet in a dramatic news year. Among the many other stories that she covered were the London terrorist attacks, the riots in France, the first democratic elections in Iraq and the death and funeral of Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict XVI. In 2004 high profile stories covered by Amanpour included the Darfur conflict in Sudan; she travelled to the region twice and coverage included an exclusive interview with Sudanese President al-Bashir.
Throughout her career Amanpour has succeeded in securing a number of high profile and exclusive interviews with world leaders. Just as Iran’s nuclear crisis was developing, Amanpour secured the first and only interview with Iran’s new president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Major interviews in 2005 included a world exclusive with Syrian President Bashar el Assad on the UN investigation into Syria’s involvement in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri and French Prime Minister Domenique de Villepin in the aftermath of the riots in France. Other noteworthy interviews conducted by Amanpour have included French President Jacques Chirac prior to the 2003 conflict in Iraq and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, with whom she also secured the first interview after September 11, 2001. Amanpour interviewed Mahmoud Abbas, the first Palestinian Prime Minister, during a state visit to Washington in 2003, secured the first ever interview with Jordan’s new monarch, King Abdullah, in May 1999 and was the last journalist to interview the King’s father, the long-reigning King Hussein, days before his death. Other interviews include President Musharraf during the war against Afghanistan in 2001, Chairman Arafat and ex-Prime Minister Barak during the heightened Middle East peace negotiations in 2000 and Mikhail Gorbachev in November 1999 for the 10th anniversary of the fall of communism, as well as an exclusive with Hillary Rodham Clinton in May 1999 and with President Khatami in December 1997.
Amanpour is widely acclaimed for her coverage of the war in the Balkans where she spent years on this dangerous assignment, bringing the Bosnian tragedy into context and to the world’s attention. No international network correspondent has reported as continuously from this ethnically torn region. Amanpour subsequently covered the Milosevic war crime trials in The Hague in 2001 and 2002 and returned to the region in 2005 to mark the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre.
Her reputation as a world-class correspondent began with her reporting on the dramatic changes occurring in central Europe during 1989 and 1990. During her assignment in the Persian Gulf she covered the Gulf War, from Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 to the U.S. bombing of Baghdad and the Kurdish refugee crisis on the Iran/Iraq border that persisted after the cease-fire. She also covered the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991 and subsequent war in Tbilisi. In December 1992, Amanpour briefly left the former Yugoslavia to report live from the shores of Mogadishu, Somalia, as U.S. troops launched Operation: Restore Hope.
Amanpour has received many prestigious awards in recognition of for her reporting on major world stories. For her reporting from the Balkans, Amanpour received a News and Documentary Emmy, two George Foster Peabody Awards, two George Polk Awards, a Courage in Journalism Award, a Worldfest-Houston International Film Festival Gold Award and the Livingston Award for Young Journalists. She was also named 1994 Woman of the Year by the New York Chapter of Women in Cable and Telecommunications, and she helped the CNN news network win a duPont Award for its coverage of Bosnia and a Golden CableACE for its Gulf War coverage.
Amanpour’s 1991 Gulf War reporting also received the Breakthrough Award from Women, Men and Media. Her contribution to the 1985 four-week series, ‘Iran: In the Name of God’, helped CNN earn its first duPont award.
In total Amanpour has won nine Emmy awards, including one for her documentary ‘Struggle for Islam’; the 2002 Edward R Murrow Award for Distinguished Achievement in Broadcast Journalism; the Sigma Chi Award (SDX) for her reports from Goma, Zaire; a George Polk Award for her work on the CNN International special ‘Battle for Afghanistan’ in 1997; and the Nymphe d’Honneur at the Monte Carlo Television Festival in 1997, to name but a few.
Recently, Amanpour was named a Fellow of the Society of Professional Journalists. This honour recognises significant contributions to journalism. She has also been bestowed with a number of honorary degrees from America’s prestigious universities.
Amanpour began her CNN career in 1983 as an assistant on the network’s international assignment desk in Atlanta. She has since worked in CNN’s New York and Frankfurt bureaux.
Before joining CNN, Amanpour worked at WJAR-TV, Providence, R.I., as an electronic graphics designer. From 1981 to 1982, she worked as a reporter, anchor and producer for WBRU-Radio, also in Providence.
Amanpour graduated summa cum laude from the University of Rhode Island with a bachelor of arts in journalism.

A Brief Introduction from the Blog Author

2007-02-02T22:36:00.001-04:00

Michael G. McKay Bachelor of Arts Degree Recipient Class of 2005.
My name is Michael McKay and I am the Author of this blog I am a graduate of the Class of 2005 Saint Thomas university in Fredericton New Brunswick I have an Earned Bachelor of Arts Degree with a Major in Religious Studies and a Minor in Philosophy. I am blind and have been since August 04, 1984.
I am able to access the computer by way of a Screen Reader called Jaws for Windows which functions as text to speech inter-face. this means that the screen reader is able to read emails and websites and even graphics if they are labled properly. I also am able to scan text Ducuments into the computer using a software called Kurzwiel which is a OCR or, Optical Character Recognition system it works like sort of an electronic Photocopier instead of the text to a physical page it transfers to the Computer Screen.
My Eye condition I was informed was as the result of either parental Abuse, a problem at birth which caused a hemerage to occur and Hydroensepholitis a.k.a. Water on the brain. but their was no brain damage whatsoever. I am considering going back to University studies as a post-graduate student and maybe taking some Social Work courses or maybe Law studies at UNB Faculty of Law.
Volunteer Activities:
I am currently working as a Volunteer at the Fredericton Community Kitchen on Friday, Saturday, and also on Sunday from 3:pm to 6:pm, and any other days if they need an extra hand.
I am the president of the Canadian Council of the Blind Fredericton Chapter, we Meet on the first Tuesday of each Month. I also Volunteer at a local Street level Droppin Centre on Monday Evenings.
Blessings for now!

STU Dispatch: Tyrnanny of the Ministry-- Provincial Group Aims to Protect Majority7 Language Rights By Justin Piercy

2007-01-24T21:06:00.000-04:00

"Provincial group aims to protect majority language rights
By Justin Piercy
The Anglo Society of New Brunswick protesting Acadia Day
Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow. This book, written by Jock Andrews in the mid-1970s, expresses deep concerns for the English language after Pierre Trudeau’s vision of a bilingual country would be realized. Mathew Glenn read the book in 1982 and took it with a grain of salt. But today, as the president of the Anglo Society of New Brunswick, he says its message about English being relegated to second-class status is coming to fruition. “When I read that book, I thought it was a bunch of baloney,” he said. “But I’ve read it several times since and every word that man wrote is coming true.” The Anglo Society was established in 1992 with a mission statement centered on the protection of the culture and heritage of English-speaking people in the province. Glenn says the group is no different than other cultural groups such as the Scottish, Irish or Acadian Society. “Our goal is to preserve our language and culture as the others do,” he said. The ASNB says it has no political affiliations but has tried to talk with government officials from all three levels about its concerns, with very limited success. “None of them want to touch it,” Glenn said. “They more or less say it’s a non-issue, that’s they’re favorite word when it’s brought up.” Dr. Richard Myers is a political science professor at St. Thomas University. He says the ASNB may not be getting the attention or explanation it deserves, but it’s because the problem is now a non-issue. “When the (bilingualism) regime was first introduced there were hardships and problems and the government’s attempt to address those was the best they could do, but not fully satisfactory,” Myers said. “Consequently in the eighties it was an issue people could legitimately squabble about.”“But the Anglo Society is really digging up an issue that was settled many years ago. There isn’t much of a case to be made today.” The Anglo Society says that while it doesn’t oppose bilingualism or the French culture, it has an issue with what it sees as an inequality between the two languages in the province. The group may be best known for its protests every year in front of Fredericton’s City Hall on Acadian Day, the 15th of August. The Society is viewed by many as a protest movement, but Glenn would like to clear up exactly who or what it is they’re protesting. “We’re not against the Acadians; we’re against the city of Fredericton,” he said. “They put all the other flags up, Acadian Day…or the Gay Pride (flag) but they won’t put ours up. So we are always there protesting against the city, not the Acadian Society.” Glenn says they don’t protest other flags flown at City Hall because the Acadian flag represents language and culture, which they argue the Anglo flag does as well. “It’s not equally recognizing the English population of the province,” he said.City of Fredericton communications director Wayne Knorr says that while the ASNB has applied the last few years to raise its flag in front of City Hall, the municipality will only fly flags that are nationally recognized, and the ASNB flag is not. Ron Bubar is the Vice-President of the ASNB, and he says the protests put on by the group should not be seen as an opposition to bilingualism or French culture as so much of it is a promotion of English rights and bringing “fairness” to the system. Bubar hints that employers treat bilingual French people more leniently. He says what the ASNB really wants is a less stringent language requirement for employment so more Anglophones will stay in the province. “Our kids and our grandkids are being refused jobs especially in government and to a degree in the public service simply because they don’t speak French well enough…and are simply moving out of the province,” Bubar said. “I have personally dealt with people in government departments who could hardly converse in the English language. That seems to be okay, but when it’s the other way around it seems to be unacceptable to the government department or for other people who lodge major complaints …to get rid of the individual who doesn’t speak French well enough. It’s becoming an unfair situation.” Myers says the ASNB is mistaken in where its perceived double standard lies. “I believe there is a double standard, but I believe it has been the exact opposite,” Myers said. “As someone who does speak both languages quite well it astonishes me how people will make the argument that a francophone speaks English very badly and yet claim as an Anglophone, they are bilingual.”“People in North America set a much higher standard for the quality of other people’s English than their own capacity to speak another language and is largely because Anglophones in North America have little experience with second languages. We have unrealistic expectations in some aspects.” Myers says the idea that more bilingual francophones get preferential treatment for jobs is nothing less than absurd.“Bilingual people have more opportunities than unilingual people… it has nothing to do with French or English. It has to do if you can work in both official languages,” Myers said.“I think the argument made by people like the ASNB would be something like this: it works against unilingual Anglophones and works in favour of bilingual people to the extent that there are more francophones that are bilingual, the bilingual regime seems to create more opportunities for francophones than anglophones. I think that is perfectly true. I don’t think there is anything terribly wrong with it, especially today.” Despite what it calls a lack of attention from officials and media, the ASNB continues to protest in order to spread its message to the public. It has organized demonstrations near French-only signage in Marysville and Saint John, and the following days, the signs were removed. “The (majority) language in this country is English; we have nothing against bilingualism or French people,” Glenn said. “We’re not bigots or anti-French but the number one language should be on the top or on the left. We never get any media attention like other organizations do. Anybody else that goes out with a flag or a placard on them the media is all over them, but they won’t touch us at all.” They may not have a nationally recognized organization, but the two executives say a growing number of New Brunswickers have joined the ASNB. They were reluctant, however, to give out official membership statistics. “We were asked the time we formed that (membership numbers) not be for public scrutiny, there is a fair number…and it’s increasing everyday,” Glenn said. “The fact is we received a package from another area of the province just recently with about 30 membership applications inside of it and we receive those quite often.” Glenn says it may be the lack of information about what they are trying to do that scares people away from supporting the society, and what they stand for. “We have a lot of signs of support, people will walk up and give a donation or pat you on the back but if you see them the next day and they’re with someone they might say ‘hi’ or nothing at all,” Glenn said. “They’re scared to death, they’re afraid of being called a racist or a bigot, which we aren’t.” “We have nothing against bilingualism, I have one daughter who is bilingual and anyone who wants to be, that’s fine and dandy,” Bubar added. “But we shouldn’t be forced to be.”

Mount Everest is the Highest Mountain in the World and may also be the most Dangerous to Climb

2007-01-18T02:50:00.001-04:00

"View of the West Face
of "Mount Everest"
Truly the highest and Most Dangerous Mountain in the World

Blind Mountain climber Erik
Weihenmayer Made it all the way to the very top.

For years Mount Everest is been in the minds and hearts of many who would seek to climb her trecherous peeks, and make it to the highest point on earch they would literally touch the Top of the World. Erik Weihenmayer is the only "Totally blind Person" to have climbed the "Seven Summits," the tallest peak on each continent. He has scaled the 3000 foot rock face of El Capitan, skied down the tallest mountain in Europe, and guided Tibetan blind teenagers to 21,500 feet on the north face of Mt. Everest.

To find out more about Erik and his Adventure on Everest, Click on Erik Weihenmayer is the only blind person to have climbed the "Seven Summits," the tallest peak on each continent. He has scaled the 3000 foot rock face of El Capitan, skied down the tallest mountain in Europe, and guided Tibetan blind teenagers to 21,500 feet on the north face of Mt. Everest. Erik Weihenmayer is the only blind person to have climbed the "Seven Summits," the tallest peak on each continent. He has scaled the 3000 foot rock face of El Capitan, skied down the tallest mountain in Europe, and guided Tibetan blind teenagers to 21,500 feet on the north face of Mt. Everest. visit http://www.touchthetop.com

The Government of New Brunswick; Do They Really Have New Brunswicker's Best Interests at Heart, I Personally Do not Think So!

2007-01-09T20:58:00.000-04:00

In New Brunswick's Capital City of Fredericton, Stands the Legislative Assembly building which serves as the seat of Power for the elected Government and the Oposition members. But what really happens inside these walls of government. We elect our individual Members of the Lesislative Assembly or, (M.L.A.s) for a period of approximately four and one hald years or so, and they supposedly run the Provincial buisness or politics on behalf of those who voted them into office. However I hve noticed over the last few years that the very poor and low-income Residence in our province are not very well represented at all, It would seem that these elected officials who are supposed to be working on behalf of us all no matter what are status is, we all supposedly have the right to be heard and properly represented by those whom we elect and put into such a position of Power and Authority.

I would strongly urge that our MLAs, start working onbehalf of all New Brunswickers and not just for those who can line their pockets with money, we have many people who have workable skills and are not able to find meaningful and gainful employment because they asre for whatever eason not able to properly access the channels they need to get the ball rolling.

A lot of people complain about former (Premier Richard B. Hatfield), and yes he messed up on a lot of things but at least when his Government was representing the People of New Brunswick, there were more jobs and a lot more people were gainfully employed then there are now. all we have now is the Call Centres and other outside crapp that the McKenna Liberals and other liberal regemes bribed the People of this Province with because they stole from this Province and New Brunswickers were stupid enough to let them do it.

Work on behalf of all of us or, Resign and let someone else who will truly work for everyone.

Teken From the Scotsman Online Daily Newspaper: Exterminate Those Who Slander Islam

2007-01-06T19:31:00.001-04:00

I ask you to read this very carefully, and then you tell me, if this Religion is a peaceful and loving Religion.

In my opinion, and according to my Research, it is a very Evil and Sinister and even Diabolical Religion. You read it for yourslf and you tell me.

Many demonstrators carried signs urging violence against perceived enemies. Picture: Getty

JOHN INNES
A BRITISH Muslim has been found guilty of soliciting murder during a London demonstration, in a high-profile Old Bailey case which has stoked debate over free speech laws.
Umran Javed, 27, led a crowd in chants of "Bomb, bomb, Denmark. Bomb, bomb USA" during protests in February 2006 against the publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

Javed, of Birmingham, was recorded on police video and arrested later, said David Perry QC, prosecuting at the Old Bailey.
Javed was found guilty of soliciting murder and stirring up racial hatred, and remanded in custody for sentencing in April. There were protests from the public gallery as the verdicts were returned.
Mr Perry said the demonstration on 3 February last year was to protest about the cartoons printed in Denmark and reproduced in some European countries. He said Javed used a loudhailer to address around 40 people outside the Danish embassy in Knightsbridge.
"He appeared to be one of the leaders," said Mr Perry. "He addressed the crowd in terms which encouraged killing and incited racial hatred."
Javed had continued with his speech as the crowd was joined by up to 300 other Muslims who had marched from the central mosque in Regent's Park.
He condemned the cartoons as dishonouring Muhammad and accused non-believers of "declaring war against Islam and the Muslim community", said Mr Perry.
"He said disbelievers would pay a heavy price ... and said Denmark would pay with blood."
Mr Perry said the case was not about freedom of assembly or freedom of speech and claimed the words used were plainly criminal.
Javed told the jury: "I regret saying these things. I understand the implications they have but they were just slogans, soundbites. I did not want to see Denmark and the USA being bombed."
His trial was one of several involving demonstrators arrested following the protest.
Outside court, Muslim Anjem Choudary, a former spokesman for the now banned al-Muhajiroun organisation, said: "I am not surprised at all. Muslims are demonised and vilified.
"We have peaceful demonstrations, and then slogans that have been used normally are taken out of context.
"This is a failure of capitalism, of democracy and the freedom of speech. Muslims are treated as second-class citizens and we can't get a fair trial."
But Sue Hemming, head of the Crown Prosecution Service counter terrorism division, said: "Free speech is an important aspect of a democratic society.
"However, when we examined Mr Javed's speech there was direct encouragement to those present and those watching via the media to commit acts of murder against the Danes and Americans.
"The law also makes it clear that free speech should not be misused to insult, abuse or threaten people in such a way that it will stir up racial hatred.
"Given the context in which Mr Javed's speech was delivered, it was plain that racial hatred was intended or the likely result."
The shadow home secretary, David Davis, later said: "While Britain is a tolerant society, it should never tolerate threats of violence or death from any quarter under any circumstance."
Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Nick Clegg said: "This is a sound, strong judgment. There is simply no justification, under any circumstances, for such callous incitement to hatred and violence."
Related topic
Danish cartoon rowhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1381
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=29972007
Last updated: 06-Jan-07 01:33 GMT
Comments Add your comment
1. Shashlik, Kazakhstan / 2:50am 6 Jan 2007
It never fails to amaze me just why we allow these people into our Country who advocate violence against us and western people in general. Before coming to the UK they should firstly swear legions to our Queen our Country our culture and respect our traditions. Then they should be sworn to respect all of that above their own religion, because our rights should take priority over their rights. After all they are the one's wanting to come to our Country and no body is forcing them to come. If they don't then we should not give them a British Passport.It's simple really, respect us and in return we will allow you to live here under license until such times as you break that respect. Give them a 20 year license and any infringement of that would be considered a violation of their rights to stay in the UK.I have worked outside the UK for more than 30 years and I still do not understand why we are so tolerant to these people who hate us.Report as unsuitable
2. KaiPie / 2:59am 6 Jan 2007
I find it ironic that freedom of speech is being cited yet it is that same freedom of speech they wanted to suppress in the first place by saying these cartoons shouldn't be allowed.Report as unsuitable
3. Heilan laddie, Inverness / 4:07am 6 Jan 2007
Well said Shashlik. I totaly agree. Its time our government started protecting our rights and our culture and started controling our own borders.If they dont agree with our culture they should not be here its quite simple. How on earth a minority of 2 million people can dictate to a majority of 58 million people beggars beliefe. I was always lead to believe when I was growing up that in a democratic society the majority ruled. Its difficult to understand why Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc dont go around threatening people when they are insulted but these people do. I think they should take up a hobby or something.Report as unsuitable
4. Chuck.U.Farley / 5:46am 6 Jan 2007
Outside court, Muslim Anjem Choudary, a former spokesman for the now banned al-Muhajiroun organisation, said: "I am not surprised at all. Muslims are demonised and vilified.
Jaw dropping stuff ............vilified???
Was is not one of his muslim brothers who was just convicted?Under Islam is murder not considered a vile act?Report as unsuitable
5. Krishna, Udupi, India / 5:52am 6 Jan 2007
Sir/Madam:I am happy read to the comments of 1, 2 and 3. I am glad that at least some have realized the threat. Let me add here, it is only the beginning!
In India, one Muslim painter has been painting Hindu Gods, Goddesses and India in nude and more intolerable manner. I have not heard Muslims making violent protests in India against this painter.
However, based on freedom of religion, free speech, democracy and so on, there were violent protests against the cartoons as dishonoring Muhammad. Look at the double standards and hypocrisy! As in the case of UK, US and many secular democracies, it is clear that their loyalty is not to the nation they live (in clear terms fifth columnists) but somewhere else!
In Australia, Muslim kids pissed on Bible. How many Muslims condemned this act? Were there protests?
Most of the Muslims in the early phase of immigration to UK were uneducated and they came for "better life". Many came on asylums. Many criminals including some from India took shelter using the pretext that they will not get justice in a Hindu majority India! Now look at many of them and the next generation! Talk about blasting the hand that helps: you have right in your doorstep!
Laws are not static. They have to change with the time. Under these circumstances, laws have to be changed. All those, who are not loyal, including the next generation, should be packed off lock, stock and barrel to the nations they have come from!Regards,Report as unsuitable
6. Scottabroad / 5:54am 6 Jan 2007
The muslims are riding a wave of political correctnes whereby it is almost impossible to say anything critical about Islam for fear of the overreaction witnessed last year after a cartoon, a CARTOON for Mohammed's sake, was drawn. I totally agree with Shashlik - live in our country, contribute to our economy and respect the ways of the host nation. Stop namby pambying to everyone who feels a little bit sensitive.Report as unsuitable
7. Chuck.U.Farley / 6:44am 6 Jan 2007
>>Outside court, Muslim Anjem Choudary, a former spokesman for the now banned al-Muhajiroun organisation, said: "I am not surprised at all. Muslims are demonised and vilified.<< class="report" href="http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=29972007&bad=264861#comment264861">Report as unsuitable
8. andrew robertson, fife scotland / 7:26am 6 Jan 2007
This is getting out of hand in a big way there would be no need for this if only they would keep their mouths shut.They say that we have free speach in our country DO THEY UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS if this is islam then it is not welcome here.Last night a young man who had taken part in ann robinsons show was booted off by fellow contestants and his remarks were that the queen and the royal party were useless and sat about all day Why did the bbc allow this to be on tele and what did have to do with him getting the boot.This was a poor way for a young man who i suspect born in this country to behave and shame on him should he believe in islam it is people like him that should just go back to their own country and see the barbaric goings on and then they may at last find out that GB is a good place to live and that they should respect our laws and beliefs as we would respect theirs.Report as unsuitable
9. Pocket Dictionary, Scotland / 7:34am 6 Jan 2007
On Thursday 04/01/07 10pm - 1am, a shock jock on a down market Edinburgh based talk radio station was calling for the stoning of women. He said that women who tell men they are on the pill and subsequently not and become pregnant, should be taken to the town square and receive a stoning. I would say that is calling for someone's death, will police investigate this and bring charges or is it only Muslims that face the courts?Report as unsuitable
10. W Smith, Middle East / 7:50am 6 Jan 2007
".. and then slogans that have been used NORMALLY are taken out of context" - Anjem Choudary
Normally????? Its 'normal' to threaten to behead someone? Amazing!
BTW1) I have heard of Brits been kicked out of Singapore for starting fights in pubs, touching a girl's backside in the pub, etc. Does that mean the Singapore government are anti-British? Certainly not! It just means that they don't put up with any nonsense.
2) Australia has deported Scottish criminals - even it has meant taking back the Oz passport. Does that mean the Aussies are anti-Scottish? No way!
Its time to get tough on these trouble makers and we should let them know that we don't give in to this emotional blackmail that comes with accusations like 'your anti-Muslim', 'your demonising muslims', etc.
If the Brits working in the ME went around threatening to behead Muslims it wouldn't be long before they got kicked out of the ME. In fact, they would be lucky to get out alive!Report as unsuitable
11. Brendan / 8:34am 6 Jan 2007
One thing that concerned me most about that protest was the banners they were carrying were all created by the same hand - recall at the time seeing a female making up the banners with her distinctive handwriting. She was filmed on national TV making up the banners and yet no action taken against her as yet, that I'm aware of. Curious.Report as unsuitable
12. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 8:39am 6 Jan 2007
If Umran Javed despises us and our laws so much, he should leave.
If he doesn't, we should kick him out.
Whilst I support the call made (post #1) for some sort of Oath\Statement of allegiance to our country, the monarcy is an inappropriate tool.
The monarchy is fundamentally flawed, as it discriminates againts millions of ordinary Brits on the basis of our religion. In 2007, that's unacceptable.
Note too, that the current incumbent is of German extraction (Saxe Coburg Gotha) and by any logical succession rules, she is not the Queen at all.
She is no more the Queen of England than Terry Butcher.Report as unsuitable
13. Faramars, IRAN / 9:08am 6 Jan 2007
As a Muslim I can not approve the words used by Umran . Killing civilians is forbidden in real Islamic theory and I can strongly claim that there no religion which is in opposition to murder as Islam . Mr. Perry has declared that Umran Javad is accused of "soliciting murder" . I advise him to have glance at a book titled" English criminal law". Using mere words without real intention to commit a crime can not be regarded as criminal behavior. Lawyers better know that on of the essential elements to constitute a crime is Mens Rea. Umran has used many words which there is no real and active intention behind them. In other hand soliciting is criminal if someone helps another individual who is ready to commit a crime. In this case there was no real person to act in this way at the time of protest . Finally I can conclude that depending upon whom is under trial in an English court the outcome can be different . As we discussed yesterday British soldiers beating Iraqis teenagers were easily acquitted contrary to all rules of law . Today Umran was found guilty because of his religion .Report as unsuitable
14. scotspatriot / 9:16am 6 Jan 2007
"This is a failure of capitalism, of democracy and the freedom of speech. Muslims are treated as second-class citizens and we can't get a fair trial."
How hypocritical these people are. Double standards at its highest level.Do as I say, don't do as I do.
Freedom of speech? So, the Taliban were pioneers in that field? Give me a break.
The tide is turning, people are just plain sick of pandering to the political correct brigade who think we should allow these people to do as they want. No chance.
If you're not happy in this country with OUR laws and OUR traditions......go somewhere else, preferably many, many miles from this country.
P.S. Pax Vobiscum, I agree with your stance on the monarchy. Well said.Report as unsuitable
15. Labour voter / 9:21am 6 Jan 2007
Lets face it, we now look at these "peaceful" people, some who have been in our communities for years, and wonder just where their sympathies lie!Report as unsuitable
16. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 9:23am 6 Jan 2007
Faramars 13,
EVERY major religion opposes murder.
Your understanding of our law is very poor. An Act of Parliament was passed to protect us from such behaviour.
Certain acts were explicitly rendered illegal in law. This man committed one of these acts and was filmed doing so. ie the law is clear, and there is no doubt he broke it.
He is guilty.He was found guilty.He will be punished. The vast majority of people in the UK will support his punishment.
Mens rea is a weak defence. Frankly, it's pathetic.
If he cannot abide by our laws, he should go elsewhere. Perhaps he should go to Iran, and break some laws there.
I know little of the case against the British soldiers, but feel sure your observations are twisted.
I do know that Umran was found guilty because he was filmed breaking the law, not because of his religion.
Finally, are you aware that only members of one religion are discriminated against in law in the UK?
It's NOT Islam.
It's Catholics.Report as unsuitable
17. scotspatriot / 9:23am 6 Jan 2007
Faramars,
The mens rea here is the intent to solicit racial hatred and murder. And using mere words could constitute conspiracy. Think about it.
It would not be at all difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was his intention. As has been proven.
The crime needs both actus and mens rea. He had both. He is guilty as charged
Nothing to do with his religion but I'm sure this will be tried as a defence on appeal against his Human Rights.Report as unsuitable
18. ROXY ROOLS / 9:42am 6 Jan 2007
That bunch are always looking for some excuse to riot or bring down the west..it was a cartoon, for God's(anybody's) sake...as in joke. As i have said before, if the tables were turned.......
about 3 weeks ago.Catherine Tait, comedienne, did a skit on her show where she poked fun at various nationalities..to my knowledge none of their citizens have been demanding her brought to justice.Report as unsuitable
19. scotspatriot / 9:44am 6 Jan 2007
Anyway, giving this subject oxygen only allows it to live longer.
We will never find a common ground. The opposing factions are just too rooted in their own beliefs.Pessemistic, yes. Realistic, I think so.Report as unsuitable
20. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 9:45am 6 Jan 2007
Whilst this could deteriorate to a dabate about the nuances of our law, we must not lose sight of the fact that in public, in England, Umran Javed, 27, led a crowd in chants of "Bomb, bomb, Denmark. Bomb, bomb USA".
To civilised people, that is totally unacceptable, and those who defend or excuse his actions are sick.
That whole protest phase was characterised by scum (like Umran) making protests which were far worse than the issue they were protesting about.
So.....some guy in Denmark has published a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad?
Chants of "Bomb Denmark" as an appropriate response? Murder innocent men, women, and children?
Try living in Glasgow. Try attending a football match in Govan where 40,000 thugs chant Fvck The Pope, and the Authorities acquiesce.Report as unsuitable
21. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 9:47am 6 Jan 2007
19
Sad, but you have a point.
Logically, we could then say.....you do YOUR thing.....and we'll do OURS.....
but
Umran's over here breaking the law...
and
US\UK et al seem hell bent on getting over there to IMPOSE our values on them.
We're doomed!Report as unsuitable
22. scotspatriot / 9:56am 6 Jan 2007
Faraman is very quiet.Report as unsuitable
23. Duncan, SCOTLAND where IT REALLY IS TIME / 9:56am 6 Jan 2007
13 FARAMAR
You say you are in Iran. How you can have the affrontery to try and criticise this prosecution defies belief. Here is an example of justice Iranian style.
"On June 8, the Third Branch of the Revolutionary Court in Ahwaz sentenced Zamel Bawi, Jaafar Sawari, Risan Sawari and Abdulreza Nawaseri to death following a one-day trial on June 7. Human Rights Watch has been informed that no witnesses were called in the trial of these four men. The Judiciary has not provided dates and details of trials for the other nine men sentenced to death. According to Iranian activists, one of the convicted men, Nazem Bureihi, has been imprisoned since 2000 and was serving a 35-year sentence for ?insurgency against the state? at the time of his alleged crime. ?One of the wonders of the Iranian Judiciary is that it can accuse a person of carrying out bombings while he?s in prison,? said Whitson. ?That lays bare the arbitrariness of his conviction.? Iran carries out more executions annually than any other nation but China. Human Rights Watch, which opposes capital punishment in all instances, called on the Iranian government to stop using the death penalty, due to its inherent cruelty and irrevocability. "
Reform your own country before trying to advise us. These preachers of hate on our streets are an offence against Christianity and Democracy and our service personnel who make the ultimate sacrifice. If I tried preaching like that in Tehran how long would I last, before I was beheaded?Report as unsuitable
24. Duncan, SCOTLAND where IT REALLY IS TIME / 10:00am 6 Jan 2007
16 PAX
Do you want some fish to go with the chips on your shoulders.Report as unsuitable
25. BenDover / 10:05am 6 Jan 2007
Ho Ho Ho, let's hope he's ends up as someone girlfriend in jail and comes out with a serious smack habit.Report as unsuitable
26. scotspatriot / 10:09am 6 Jan 2007
25
Ah, but if he does get a smack habit, the government will do everything in its power to help him, Free housing, dental care, rehab, etc, etc, whilst the real needy get bugger all.
We can only hope about the girfriend thing, though.Report as unsuitable
27. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:11am 6 Jan 2007
Duncan 16
Have I said something wrong?
Are you capable of adult debate?Report as unsuitable
28. CapitalKid / 9:26am 6 Jan 2007
Once again, we see how religion threatens to subvert our civil life. If we got rid of that, how much better off we would all be.
Failing that, the civil liberty of Free Speech as enshrined in our laws and culture maintains that the speaker is responsible for his words. Shouldn't this Muslim therefore have thought carefully about what he was shrieking?
Choudary is trying to pull a fast one and must know we can all see through it. We're not all stupid in this country.
I'm a fervent anti-monarchist ...but this crap about the Windsors' fabled German past is just hot air. Her proven family tree goes right back to circa 500ce with her far ancestor Fergus Mor mac Erca ... king of the Dalriadic Scots who came from Ireland. She, her father, grandfather and great grandfather were all born in Britain. How many generations do you have to go back to prove "Britishness"?
I know several "asian" people who are 3rd generation and they are as Scottish as anybody with Mac in their name!Report as unsuitable
29. PM Burton, UK / 10:14am 6 Jan 2007
Demonisation of Islam? Just try spreading Biblical Christianity in this country, and voice opposition to Gay rights or something and see how Evangelical Christianity is demonised in a so-called 'Christian' country. It's time to wake up, my muslim friends!Report as unsuitable
30. scotspatriot / 10:17am 6 Jan 2007
Right, its past 10 o clock. Who's round is it?Report as unsuitable
31. scotspatriot / 10:26am 6 Jan 2007
29.
But doesn't Christianity demonise gays?
Im not one, I hasten to add, but Christianity is extremely prejudice about gay rights.The bible belt in America is far-right in its opinion on this.Report as unsuitable
32. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:29am 6 Jan 2007
Capitalkid 28,
The Monarchy
The House of Hanover
1/ Excludes Catholics. In one famed succession, the person who took the throne was 55th in line, because the first 54 were Catholics.
2/ Another succession has been recently exposed by advances in medical knowledge as fundamentally flawed. See Channel 4 programme that showed the rightful King is a big fat guy in Australia called Mike Hastings.
Lizzie is no more the Queen of England than Terry Butcher.Report as unsuitable
33. scotspatriot / 10:31am 6 Jan 2007
This talking about religion before my dinner on a Saturday is too heavy man.
I say follow the gourd. He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.Report as unsuitable
34. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:32am 6 Jan 2007
28,
Much of what you say about Betty is true, but for their English Windsor nomenclature they CHANGED THEIR NAME from Saxe Coburg Gotha.Report as unsuitable
35. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:34am 6 Jan 2007
31,
No, Christianity doesn't demonise homosexuals.
I'm not aware of any way Christianity is prejudiced against homosexuals.
Bible belt America? That's a different matter. They're just plain nuts.Report as unsuitable
36. scotspatriot / 10:38am 6 Jan 2007
35
Sorry to say, you need to open your eyes then.
The bible says, 'Man will not lie with man.'
Prejudice. Fact.Report as unsuitable
37. Faramars, Iran / 10:40am 6 Jan 2007
# Pay vobiscum 16 – Scotpatroit 17 & Duncan 23
# Pay vobiscum 16You have told that an Act of Parliament has been passed to protect you from such behaviour. please post the details of the Act in order to help me learn English law better .Please note that Umran is a British citizen and you can not ask him to leave his hometown.
#Scotpatroit 17
Thanks for your comment. As a general rule in almost legal systems the accusation must be established beyond reasonable doubt. As far I know there is a special emphasis upon this principle in common law. In this case there is nobody who is actually ready for commit murder. Therefore we can charge Umran with soliciting murder.
#Duncan 23 Dear friend Bad or good death penalty is recognized in Iranian legal system. you are free to criticize this institution .Report as unsuitable
38. scotspatriot / 10:41am 6 Jan 2007
What has all this got to do with the original topic anyway?
Bugger it, I'm off back to bed.
FREE SCOTLAND.Report as unsuitable
39. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:41am 6 Jan 2007
Aye, fair enough, 36, but is that "prejudice"?Report as unsuitable
40. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:42am 6 Jan 2007
Are you way back to bed to bugger it?
Och.......I'm sorry scotspatriot.....I couldnae resist that quip!Report as unsuitable
41. scotspatriot / 10:45am 6 Jan 2007
Faramers.
Reasonable doubt is not exclusive to murder. In common law two factors need to be proven.1. The act (actus reus)
2. The intent (mens rea)
If these two factors can be proven beyond reasonable doubt, in ANY common law crime, then the accused is guilty.
Your welcome.Report as unsuitable
42. scotspatriot / 10:46am 6 Jan 2007
Pax.
Your naughty.Report as unsuitable
43. BenDover / 10:47am 6 Jan 2007
Wonder what the Koran says about nonces, particulary given their Prophet was one?Report as unsuitable
44. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 10:48am 6 Jan 2007
Faramars 37,
being a British citizen brings responsibilities, and Umran has failed, miserably.
Inciting bombing is unacceptable to decent people here and elsewhere.
I would like him, and his sort to leave the UK, though I cannot enforce it. The UK would be better off without them.
Re the specific Act of Parliament used here, try google.Report as unsuitable
45. Eric D, Renfrew / 10:50am 6 Jan 2007
If he is 1st generation then he should be deported. We dont want those type.Report as unsuitable
46. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 10:54am 6 Jan 2007
43
Ben
Controversial.Report as unsuitable
47. Alex. / 10:58am 6 Jan 2007
Why are demonstrators allowed to do so with their faces covered? Do they do it because they are cowards? Do they not have the courage of their convictions to show their faces? After this conviction we can expect more Muslim demonstrators with faces covered. Should we all cover our faces so politicians are forced to bring this to an end to allow the law enforcers to do their jobs without hindrance.Report as unsuitable
48. Sanny, Portugal / 11:02am 6 Jan 2007
4. Chuck.U.Farley: - “Under Islam is murder not considered a vile act?”Not if it is a Kuffer - That is Non-Muslims. Check the Koran it has 32 verses calling for the slaughter of non-Muslims. But there is a tax system where you can pay them to be allowed to live. That’s one Mr. Brown hasn’t caught up with yet.9. Pocket Dictionary,: - One idiot does not make a country Whereas murder is part of the Koran. I get angry when I hear the likes of Prince Charles and Blair et al say “Islam is a religion of peace”. Look at its history.10. W Smith: - Would that our politicians take a leaf out of Australia’s book. Remove not just the offender but the entire family!13. Faramars, IRAN: - Either you are stupid and or a liar. Try reading your so called holy book and the Hadiths.Perhaps Faramar could answer this question: What is the punishment for someone who dares to leave the Islamic faith, in other words an Apostate?
Sorry I haven’t time to read any more. Happy New Year to allReport as unsuitable
49. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 11:04am 6 Jan 2007
Where's the voice of the Muslim moderates condemning the actions of this moron and other scum?Report as unsuitable
50. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 11:15am 6 Jan 2007
Right, I'm definitely away to bed.
Happy New Year to all
and
FREE SCOTLANDReport as unsuitable
51. Faramars, iran / 11:16am 6 Jan 2007
# sanny 48 I wonder why your parents have not learnt you to respect others irrespective of their beliefs .Report as unsuitable
52. Analytical Techniques / 11:17am 6 Jan 2007
WHO SHOULD BE KICKED OUT OF WHOSE COUNTRY? DO YOU OWN ONE? DID YOU CREATE ONE?THIS IS GOD'S COUNTRY.WHERE ARE YOUR TITLE DEEDS?YOU WILL ALL DIE AND LEAVE FOREIGNERS IN THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOURS. OR ELSE IF YOU KEEP CO-HABITING AND NOT HAVING KIDS, YOU WILL BE OUTNUMBERED BY FOREIGNERS, THEY WILL TAKE OVER YOUR 'COUNTRY' AND THEY WILL SEND YOU TO AFRICAN FARMS AS SLAVES. YOU DID IT TO THEM, THE CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE OF SOWING AND REAPING SAYS, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.Report as unsuitable
53. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 11:24am 6 Jan 2007
Analytical Techniques.
The Almighty told me personally that Scotland is MY land.
But, what you say, has a lot of thruth in it. Unfortunately.Report as unsuitable
54. BenDover / 11:24am 6 Jan 2007
52 - Yawn, did you get battered at school or did your special uncle touch you or something? What a weirdo.Report as unsuitable
55. Courtney, East Molesey / 11:25am 6 Jan 2007
A very fair verdictReport as unsuitable
56. James.D, Turenki, Finland / 11:27am 6 Jan 2007
Pax, posts too numerous to mention.The queen, IS Head of State, thats why an oath would be taken in her name, not Tony Bliars, as for having a catholic chip on your shoulder, has your belief ever stopped you getting a job, or anything else in life? OK I realise, you can never aspire to become the Royal family, but that goes for about 60 million other British subject, so hardly worth thinking about. Back to the thread, if muslims want to remain in Britain, they should be made to toe the line, no special treatment, they are a minority group, fit in or F### off springs to mind. Bring back Christmas and all other Cristian festivals to go under thier own name, sing Carols whenever you want, Britain is a Cristian country, though we dont all go to church, we have to respect Muslims beliefs when we visit their lands, (the bible is a proscribed book in Saudi Arabia) All this talk about shopworkers not wanting Christmas decorations, because it is against their beliefs, well its not against the majorities belief, does that mean the same shopworker, working at the checkout, won't touch the packet of bacon or other pork products, because Islam says its filthy?Report as unsuitable
57. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 11:27am 6 Jan 2007
Apart from the African farms thing.
The climate in sub-Saharan Africa is not temperate, therefore rendering it an unlikely area for growing crop. And it's not going to get any better.
But what do I know, I'm only 12.Report as unsuitable
58. BMelville, Scotland / 11:30am 6 Jan 2007
When does Tony Blair go in the dock for advocating the bombing of Serbia, Iraq, Afganistan?Report as unsuitable
59. J1i2m3, Oz / 11:31am 6 Jan 2007
It is strange that no extradition proceedings were taken against the late and unlamented Iranian ayatollah who pronounced a fatwah (incitement to murder) against Salam Rushdie.Report as unsuitable
60. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 11:33am 6 Jan 2007
58
A week on Friday.Report as unsuitable
61. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 11:37am 6 Jan 2007
James 56,
I'm saddened that my criticism of institutional anti Catholic bigotry has upset you. That tells me much about you, for this bigotry may be acceptable to you, but decent people find it unacceptable.
As the Monarchy IS fundamentally flawed, with an imposter commoner of German descent in situ, it is inappropriate for such an Oath.
Only you proposing the Prime Minister, I think your suggestion is plain stupid, James 56.
No, such an Oath should be to the country or to the people of the country and to our standards of behaviour.
Those living here should make this Oath, or "go away" somewhere else.Report as unsuitable
62. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 11:38am 6 Jan 2007
Everyone here should note that Faramars is practicing "taqqiyah". This is the Islamic practice of decepion. Islam forbids lying to Mohammedans, but not to unbelievers if it furthers the cause of Islam. Sanny is completely correct. The Qu'ran contains numerous incitements of violence against unbelievers, insults against them, threats of hell etc., and even calls for them to be beheaded (8:12) and slain wherever they are found (9:5). There is not room here for a full listing but those interested in learning more about the cult of Mohammed will find excellent resources at http://www.faithfreedom.org/ http://www.apostatesofislam.com/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/ and many other informative sites. These are usually blocked in Islamic countries as the authorities are terrified of the truth. The Qu'ran and Hadith portray Mohammed as a robber, mass-murderer, liar, womaniser, serial rapist and pedophile whose favourite wife was a 9 year old girl. If Faramars tries to deny this then I challenge him to explain why the age of consent for girls in Iran is 9? Proof of this sexual perversion by Mohammed is in most of the Sahih (authentic) hadith - Bukharia, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tabari... and marriage to pre-menstrual girls in mentioned in the Qu'ran (65:4). As well as raping this little girl, Mohammed (shame be upon him) raped girls taken prisoner in battle, like 17-year-old Safiyeh, captured at the battle of Khaibar and raped the same day by the 60 year old Mohammed. Sex with girl prisoners is allowed in the Qu'ran (e.g. 33:52, 70:29-30, 4:24) as is beating ones' wives 4:34). Faramars thinks we should respect others' beliefs. Wrong. One should never respect evil and Islam is evil.Report as unsuitable
63. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 11:39am 6 Jan 2007
58 & 60, he'll be joined in the Dock by Lizzie Battenburg, Mickey Mouse, and a big pink elephant called Jojo.Report as unsuitable
64. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 11:40am 6 Jan 2007
Not really 59, as the crime preceded the legislation.Report as unsuitable
65. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 11:48am 6 Jan 2007
It is shameful that very few of the Mohammedans who called for murder of unbelievers at this notorious demonstration have been brought to justice. The authorities in this country remain paralysed by political correctness and a foolish desire not to cause offence. Every one of those placards calling for beheading etc. of Islam's critics was entirely in accordance with Islamic teaching and practice. Mohammed himself set examples when he had his critics murdered. We have filled war cemetaries with our war dead to defend the right to criticise. Having paid in blood for this right we should defend it vigorously - and exercise it at every opportunity. As criticism is Islam's weakest point we should ruthlessly attack it in this way. Let's have cartoons portraing the 54 year old prophet consumating his marriage to his favourite bride, 9 year old Aisha, as described in the hadith (e.g. Bukhari 5:58:234 & 236; 7:62:64, 65 & 88) and justified in the Qu'ran which mentions marriage to pre-menstrual girls (65:4), and allowed in Islamic countries (e.g. Iran). Then we can watch as the Mohammedans go berserk when the world sees them for what they are - pedophile admirers.Report as unsuitable
66. Alex. / 11:51am 6 Jan 2007
#52. Is it not the case that not only were Muslims the master slave traders, they still are. Slavery still exists in the middle east. So far as saying this is not our country. You should be careful. On one hand you infer we have been colonialists but colonising this country seems to be your plan. Bit of a double edged sword. Maybe we should go to the middle east and claim the oil rich countries for ourselves and make them Christian countries. After all what is good for the Muslim is good for Christians too.Report as unsuitable
67. scotspatriot, Republic of Scotland / 11:58am 6 Jan 2007
Everyone here should note that Faramars is practicing "taqqiyah". This is the Islamic practice of decepion
Infidel. I have an uneasy feeling you may be doing the same.
Prove me wrong.Report as unsuitable
68. Louisa, Perth / 12:00pm 6 Jan 2007
Back to the article -
We may have 'freedom of speech' as an entirely reasonable and traditional precedent in the UK - but it is subject to legal safeguards (perjury, slander, libel etc.) which this fellow, captured on film and sound recording patently abused. The context of the crime is also of relevance - it was perpetrated in full public view at a time designed to exploit anger and threaten revenge from a specific group against another. I'm sick to the back teeth of our misguided 'tolerance' and subjugation to empty barrel minority squeals and tantrums in the name of multi culturism - whatever that's supposed to be. Thank goodness the law is there (?) to ensure UK justice is sustained in place of the sycophant liberals who would seem to embrace what we rightly, in other times, would have classed as High Treason, betrayal and perfidy.Islam appears to be leaning against our UK open-door and therefore we are Accessory to these crimes. Time to slam that door shut and request all to knock politely before being granted a well-considered entry or refusal? I insist (politely) on my own 'house rules' being followed when my selected guests and visitors come calling - it's about time the UK did the same thing - except the EU has it's big flat foot in our doorway.Report as unsuitable
69. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 12:12pm 6 Jan 2007
67 - easy. Just check out any of the references I gave. Qu'ran and Hadith are available on-line at www.usc.edu/debt/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/ It is easy to look up the passages I cite and verify them. The websites I refer to also contain further details and commentary by former Mohammedans.Report as unsuitable
70. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 12:14pm 6 Jan 2007
Sorry, there's a typo in the link I gave. Try: www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/Report as unsuitable
71. radical pink, fife / 12:18pm 6 Jan 2007
52# what makes you the official historian and seer for Scotland? Your recollections and predictions are way off key; Scotland will never be ruled by the outlandish disparity and cruelty created by many foreign customs and the religious fakery of cloned zealots who denigrate women and murderously attempt to control others.
As to the African slave trade reference and hellish as it was, Scotland suffered the same heinous governances and homicidal ethos in the form of the Highland clearances, since then we have moved on. The Scots learned from the experience, whereas parts of Africa are stuck in a time warp, courting home grown despots and disaster, Darfur being an exemplary example of in house slave trading!
So really I’d think twice before making daft wishful thinking predictions, in your dreams will Scotland ever bow to the despotic rule of uncivilised cultures, or be overrun by foreigners who dislike us, we’re much too loveable. I think you’d be better off going back to sleep and try to dream nice things, alternatively why not have a wee dram to quell your anger….uch sorry, I forgot your God probably doesn’t allow alcohol or a bit of fun, whit a shame, mine is a great laugh and goes out on the lash every Friday!Report as unsuitable
72. Wayne Blanchard, CANADA / 12:29pm 6 Jan 2007
'Deutschland uber alles.' Just a few choice words from Hitler. First ideas, then words, then action. If the speaker doesn't do the crime, there's always some gullible, mindless fool who will see 'the light' in such dark words and pick up the sword. The lads involved in the London bombings were 'inspired' by words...
Britain is/was/can be a sensational place. Why do you think people of the world flock to London, Edinburgh and beyond, but not so much to Tehran, Baghdad, or other Islamic centres? Don't get me wrong, I admire and respect Islam in its true, honest form. And the aforementioned cities are/were/could be sensational places themselves. But fools like the gentleman (!) in question and those who support his behaviour should remind us all that there are those who insist on pushing their none-too-good agenda on others. In this instance, deport him and his supporters before there are (again) running battles on the streets of Bradford, and the local ethnic restaurant decides to spike its Friday night curry with cyanide. Britain uber alles.Report as unsuitable
73. W Smith, Middle East / 12:44pm 6 Jan 2007
BTWDuring the Iraq-Iran war the Iranians used the Basji milita to fight Iraqi army.
1) It was basically a suicide squad made up of boys aged 12 to 17 years old.
2) They were given plastic keys to carry, which symbolised the act of martyrdom - a key to open the spiritual door and enter Paradise.
3) The keys were made in Taiwan!
4) Sad to say that in any future war involving Iran the same strategy is likely to be deployed.
(Source: yesterday's Daily Telegraph)Report as unsuitable
74. SILVANA, Glasgow / 12:46pm 6 Jan 2007
If our Government took a leaf out of the Australian Government's book, I am sure these problems would diminish. I personally believe if they want to behave in this manner they are free to do so but in their own countryReport as unsuitable
75. Jingling Geordie, The Athens of the North. / 12:56pm 6 Jan 2007
#2 & 3
Good points however I wonder if the muslim community ever ask this question.
QUESTIONS.
1. How many muslims leave their country of originand enter the UK as immigrants?.
2. How many christians leave the UK to immigrateto a muslim country?.
ANSWERS.
1. Upwards of one million.
2. Less than a couple of thousand.
Now ask yourself why.
Muslims are welcome in this country, which is our country and my country however if they can't adapt then then perhaps they should relocate to somewhere more suited to their intolerances.Report as unsuitable
76. Tired of Hypocrites, Canada / 1:17pm 6 Jan 2007
Lets make this real easy, If myself or anyone else protested with the same type slogans that Umran Javed used, I would be in jail and in front oage headlines before he was and vilified as the worst of human trash.this type of action should not be tolerated from anyone or group. READ my name!!Report as unsuitable
77. Sanny, Portugal / 1:26pm 6 Jan 2007
51. Faramars, iran: -As I expected to avoid answering the question you would rather try to insult me. Yes parents did teach me respect but as an Islamist I doubt if you would even begin to understand the concept. Now just try to answer the simple question I posed too you.As someone who has studied Islam, the Koran and the Hadiths I am reasonably informed on Islamic beliefs and of the history of the pedophile Mohammed and how he spread his “message” by the sword.My friend try to open your mind, take the scales from your eyes. Read the origins of Islam, study the Koran as simple human being and see it for what it is. Then when your mind is freed from the brainwashing, study the origins and history of monotheism from Iraq onwards through Egypt and Israel. Perhaps if you are allowed in Iran you can become a convinced Agnostic like myself.Report as unsuitable
78. Reading Public, Wisconsin, USA / 1:45pm 6 Jan 2007
This rot from within will get us all some day. I'm glad I probably won't see it. If someone wanted to enter your house and started to tell you all that was wrong with it would you continue to invite them in. Our politicians are just trying to garner votes to stay in power by all this PC. In the long run they will be our undoing and they will be sorry but it will be too late. Go back to the 1500's and has anything changed. Iraq was a huge mistake for the US and anyone else participating. All it has accomplished is to show the muslins how to counter our strengths. I believe we have opened Pandoras Box. We need to get the Geni back into the bottle but that never works. Why we cannot learn from out mistakes. I don't know but it seems we do it all over again every few years. Christains, Muslins, Jews, etc should keep separate instead of killing each other all the time. Take a look at all the death over religion. These people who hate us should be deported or jailed but our politicians do not have the balls because of shortsightness. We should go back to the vote and get rid of them, boycott stores that do not allow our beliefts and preach destruction. Thanks I have vented.Report as unsuitable
79. Krishna, Udupi, India / 1:57pm 6 Jan 2007
Sir/Madam:#78:
This vote business and appeasing Muslims including extremists will only increase with more Muslims' mass production in the US, UK and Europe as in India.
Politicians: don't bank on them! They will search for safe havens where they can run at the first trouble!Regards,Report as unsuitable
80. Reiver, Borders / 2:12pm 6 Jan 2007
We offerred them the door and welcomed them into our home ... if they don't like our sitting room, then they should be VERY LOUDLY reminded where the door is ...Report as unsuitable
81. Quizmaster, Michigan, USA / 2:12pm 6 Jan 2007
#75 You've got it.If one can't adapt....It's time to go.
Try asking for directions in Paris in English (Good Luck)Report as unsuitable
82. Louisa, Perth / 2:16pm 6 Jan 2007
Quizmaster - I found the same problem in Montreal!Report as unsuitable
83. Faye, Scotland / 2:27pm 6 Jan 2007
Its it any wonder some people say.... end religion - its the route of all evil!
Religion should not be taught in Schools or funded by the taxpayer. As for sending people back? The agitators appear to be born here! Of course, the place of birth of the father or previous generations should be considered as the place of origin and return. Remember the partition? Will those countries want to take back agitators?
The media should stop giving too much attention to these people who wish to incite trouble. The labelling a whole group of people is wrong. It is the rantings of extremists that must be tackled. Anyone who goes to the trouble of making up a banner saying "Exterminate" "Behead" is clearly inciting hatred.
Deal with the extremists and let ordinary decent hardworking people of all nationalities feel safe.Report as unsuitable
84. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 2:30pm 6 Jan 2007
Faye,
not want YOUR children taught education at school? Fair enough.
want to tell me how to have MY children educated? DONT YOU DARE.Report as unsuitable
85. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 2:36pm 6 Jan 2007
Faye,
not want YOUR children taught RELIGION at school? Fair enough.
want to tell me how to have MY children educated? DONT YOU DARE.Report as unsuitable
86. CymruRhydd, Cymru, Ynys Prydain / 2:44pm 6 Jan 2007
check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs to see how civilized these Islamicist are - and these people claim they are moderate! More can be found at: http://www.islam-watch.org/Videos/index.html Report as unsuitable
87. 2dogs in D.C., over coffee / 2:45pm 6 Jan 2007
I believe you will have more sucess un-scrambling an egg than changing any religous fanatics mind. Think i'll go make some eggs.Report as unsuitable
88. Duncan, SCOTLAND where IT REALLY IS TIME / 2:47pm 6 Jan 2007
27 PAXO
No and Yes.Report as unsuitable
89. Soph, london / 3:09pm 6 Jan 2007
Personally I have heard nothing to convince me that Islamism as a religion, bears goodwill and peacefulness to all men (and women). Which as it happens is one of the basic concepts of Christianity. There are numerous references in the Koran to killing the unbeliever if they will not convert, infact Islamists are told to consider themselves at war with any unbelievers and that the laws of Islam take precedence over all and any national laws.I am absolutely convinced that the Islamic religion was created by someone (yes I know it was Mohammad) who hads an awful lot in common with the individual that created Scientology( L.Ron. Hubbard) i.e that they were both conmen. but anyway that has very little to do with todays topic.
Free speech is an important part of our (British) law, and rightly so, but that does not give anyone the right to say anything they like, incitement to commit crimes IS a crime in its self and that was what Javed was found guilty of. In my opinion once Javed has served his time, he should be deported to an Islamic country, so what if he was born here, his religion is obviously more important to him than this countrys laws, so therefore he should be willing to live somewhere where Islam is more important too. Infact just save our taxpayers money and deport him now.Report as unsuitable
90. Faramars, iran / 3:24pm 6 Jan 2007
#Sanny 77My dear friend In this website we can share an online discussion which can be useful and full of friendship . Here we can teach and learn. The language must be full of kindness and friendship , otherwise we only waste the time which is not reasonable . when you address others as stupid or lair , don’t expect them to continue debate with you .Report as unsuitable
91. Duncan / 3:27pm 6 Jan 2007
90 FARAMARS
If you are indeed in Iran, are you not being monitored as you post to a forum?
What do you have to say about Irans human rights record as highlighted by me at 23?Report as unsuitable
92. RC_Rock68, Fairfax, Virginia, USA / 3:33pm 6 Jan 2007
The bottom line is that there truly is no such thing as moderate Islam.
For more information, I suggest reading the following books:
"Inside Islam - A Guide For Catholics" by Robert Spencer and Daniel Ali (a former Muslim who converted to Catholicism)
"The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)" by Robert Spencer
"The Sword of the Prophet: History, Theology, Impact on the World" by Serge Trifkovic
"The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion" by Robert SpencerReport as unsuitable
93. Timothy Charles Wingate, Ottawa, Canada / 3:40pm 6 Jan 2007
Faramars is either a fool or pre-psychotic. He reads the Koran but does not understand what it contains and exactly what Mohammed said in the Holy Koran.
And for Faramars to address us as "dear friends" and say he no longer want to engage in sane discussion shows he is a coward, intellectual fraud, and a casuistrist of the most pernicious type.
The accused got what he deserved and his supporters, if identified, should be deported from Great Britain because they WILL stop at nothing - including MURDER - to put forward their disgusting views.
They will NOT be going to paradise because they twist the words of the Holy Koran and insult the prophet Mohammed in doing so. They are apostates and we know that fate of apostates in the religion of Islam.Report as unsuitable
94. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 3:44pm 6 Jan 2007
Faramars (90) dismissing others because you do not like their words does not change those words. What if Sanny is right? Or me? Read what we have written, look up the references to Qu'ran and Hadith and see for yourself. Then try to access the anti-Islamic websites I cite (62). You will find your government has blocked them - why? When you discover they are blocked go to proxy.org to find a proxy to access them, then you can begin your journey to freedom from the cult of Mohammed the pedophile (shame be upon him).Report as unsuitable
95. sheena, in the past / 3:49pm 6 Jan 2007
for Sanny @77Three years ago one of the local councillors in Clackmannanshire was forced to resign when he was charged and later convicted and jailed for pedophilia. I believe he has been released pending appeal. He was from Iran and his name was Faramars, although he preferred to be called Joe.............?Report as unsuitable
96. Reading Public, Wisc. USA / 3:57pm 6 Jan 2007
Sheena, that's going a little far. I don't for one minute agree with Faramar but to call him a Ped is a bit much. That's a very nasty word.Report as unsuitable
97. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 3:58pm 6 Jan 2007
Timothy (93): "they twist the words of the Holy Koran and insult the prophet Mohammed in doing so".
How have they twisted, "Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them" (Qu'ran 9:5)?
How have they twisted "Strike off their heads and the tips of their fingers" (Qu'ran 8:12)?
How have they twisted, "We shall strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve" (Qu'ran 3:151)?
How have they twisted any of the dozens of other incitements to violence against disbelievers and critics, the scores of insults against them (Jews are ape and pgis etc.) and the hundreds of statements that unbelievers are doomed to hellfire?
How have they insulted Mohammed who came out with these statements, claiming them to be divine? How have they insulted Mohammed who murdered his own critics, waged war against his neighbours, killed or expelled all the Jews in his reach and declared, "I have been made victorious with terror" (Bukhari 4:52:220)? Mohammed would have been proud of these demonstrators and would have wanted them to actually carry their threats out.
The ones twisting Islam are the ones who preach peace - and it is they who are therefore apostates to be killed as happened to Sheikh Adil Nassar as he left his mosque yesterday - thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=26572007Report as unsuitable
98. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 4:04pm 6 Jan 2007
(96) - I have no idea if Faramars is a pedophile or not, but he is a pedophile admirer. That his "prophet" Mohammed had sex with 9 year old Aisha is so well established in the official Islamic sources (65) that it is enshrined in sharia law. In sharia law sex with little girls is completely lagel and acceptable. In Iran the age of consent for girls is 9. "Consent" just means a man desires her, "marries" her and she becomes his property. As Mohammed was a pedohile (and rapist, robber, murderer ...) and Mohammedans admire him to the point of regarding him as the most perfect role model for all humanity, it inescapably follows that Mohammedans are all pedophile admirers whether or not they are themselves pedophiles.Report as unsuitable
99. sheena, in the past / 4:16pm 6 Jan 2007
I did not call anyone on this website anything. I just made a statement of a fact which you can check in news archives.Report as unsuitable
100. HIS, Edinburgh / 4:21pm 6 Jan 2007
100Report as unsuitable
101. HIS, Edinburgh / 4:21pm 6 Jan 2007
That hunner had no religious affiliation.Report as unsuitable
102. eric, Lothian / 4:24pm 6 Jan 2007
22 That works both ways as we all know,And Glasgow City Counci; employs mostly RC ,I think Catholics do very well in Glasgow ,Theres a lot worse than gay folk out in our society as The RC church is Crammed full of People who touch up little boys n girls ,No offence Fact.Some Gvt offices we cant Play xmas music we cant call it CHRIStmas just Religious holidays,So the Guy got what he deserved,But he Wont do the time ,We will bow to pressure groups and pc mob Again,And he will be out claiming compensation,Report as unsuitable
103. eric, Lothian / 4:25pm 6 Jan 2007
oops 20Report as unsuitable
104. Swilly Tisher, Loch Maree / 4:33pm 6 Jan 2007
Seems a harsh verdict , but I suppose you have to draw the line somewhere.Report as unsuitable
105. CymruRhydd, Cymru, Ynys Prydain / 4:39pm 6 Jan 2007
To quote Faramars at: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=7782007 thread 116 "It is clear that alcohol is a main cause for many mental and physical deseases (sic) . furthermore it is a cause for violance (sic) which could amount to some criminal behavior such as murder ."So what does Faramars use as an excuse for beheadings, bombings etc. committed by members of the Islamic community?Report as unsuitable
106. iainruadh, Clovenfords / 4:46pm 6 Jan 2007
Most of the Pakistani immigrants and who cause the problems are illiterate peasants from feudal villages. We should perhaps insist on a would be immigrants having at least a minumum level of education comparable say to 50% of the European average. This would ensure that the more civilised, westernised Musselmen are not out shouted by their dumber compatriotsReport as unsuitable
107. Kenneth / 4:53pm 6 Jan 2007
As someone who has lived in several countries and travelled somewhat, it seems to me that when in Rome do as the Romans is the bottom line. What bothers me is preferance given to religions in secular countries such as Canada. Sikh men/boys are allowed to carry a dagger in public because it is a religious item. In a scuffle is someone with a dagger that is losing not going to be inclined to pull it. Sikh men are allowed to forgo head protection in many cases to allow the religious use of a turban. In the military a Sikh is allowed to wear his turban in the place of the standard head dress. In a country where all pay for medical treatment this smacks of irresponsibility on the part of the soft cover when head injuries cost millions. Islamic women? maybe women but who knows, are allowed to move about in what, if not for the religion, would be a disguise hiding the identity of the person. This all seems trivial to some, however, the basis of my complaint is that in a secular country the law of the majority is god and that law which includes the freedom to not be persecuted for being of one religious persuasion or another, nevertheless, dominates. The secular law is god. The secular law prohibits religious persecution. The secular law, however, does not allow some religions to be exempt of the same law that determines the rights, freedoms, and limitations of all. If a country, such as Israel or Iran wishes to establish themselves as a religious state then that is their business. In countries such as: Canada, France, Great Britain, and the United States, it should be enough to be free to worship as long as that worshiping is contained within the laws of the land. If someone cannot worship their version of god without all sorts of superficial trappings including disguises that could harbour a criminal, weapons that could be used to kill someone, and other elements that excuse what others are obligated to follow, then maybe they should be thinking a little more seriously about the essence of their beliefs. If one needs a lot of voodoo then maybe it is nothing more than a lot of voodoo. I am for a socially, spiritually, and legally evolving society. What I fear we are seeing is a continuing fragmentation of a society that as seen before through compartmentalization will lead us further to differentiate and discriminate. As a youth I went to school with Jews, Catholics, and kids of other religions. We were all the same outside in school and on the playground. It was educational and wonderful to visit their homes where I discoverd these differant cultures and religions. I did not and do not see them as more or less than myself. I am, however, miffed from time to time when a few are given privileges and are exempt from those law I call godReport as unsuitable
108. Kenneth / 4:56pm 6 Jan 2007
The man, if indeed that is a man, holding the sign encouraging harm to come to those who "slander" his or her religion should be looked at as someone encouraging harm. The religious issue cannot be considered in a secular society.Report as unsuitable
109. Pax Vobiscum, UK / 5:15pm 6 Jan 2007
Secularism is fine, but we cannot allow intolerant secularism to prevail.Report as unsuitable
110. Soph, london / 5:15pm 6 Jan 2007
Very well said Kenneth.Report as unsuitable
111. disgusted with courts / 5:26pm 6 Jan 2007
I just watched that chilling video of the islam so called demo, I call it something else.....
How in hell are they allowed to live in this country and yet threaten us with "uk you will pay, 7/7 is on it's way" do what Maggie done with the libyans when they caused trouble here, toss the lot of them out back where they came from where they can practice their own habits lawfully.Report as unsuitable
112. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 5:34pm 6 Jan 2007
106 - many of the 9/11 were highly educated, multilingual and English speaking. Many other terrorists and hate preachers also come from well-off and well educated backgrounds. Bin Laden is a millionaire. What they all have in common is Islam. Whether they are feudal illiterates or not matters little. Islam is the problem.Report as unsuitable
113. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 5:37pm 6 Jan 2007
Pax 109: What is "intolerant secularism"? Secularism is the neutral position where religious belief is a matter of personal conscience not state policy. It is hated by Mohammedans. It is what keeps veils out of French schools and creationism out of USA ones. When Mohammedans take over secularism is rapidly jettisoned and theocracy installed.Report as unsuitable
114. briffy, Malta / 6:03pm 6 Jan 2007
I agree 100% with the court ruling..inciting people to murder or injure others is a criminal act particularly so when it happens in public. This doesn't have anything to do with the religion of the perpetrator..be he/she Christian, Muslim or whatever..no one should be allowed to go scot-free (pardon the pun) if he/she incites somebody to murder people of whatever denomination. If somebody doesn't accept this, he/she is perfectly free to leave the UK. Nobody is forcing anybody to stay in the UK. If one doesn't like the UK legislation then he/she should get the hell out of the country and go settle somewhere else. I can well imagine how somebody from the West would be treated if he went around in a Muslim country carrying banners inciting people to murder Muslims! Would the Police allow it in the first place and, if they did, would they give protection to this demonstrator, and would this demonstrator be given a fair trial if he is eventually arrested? In a free, democratic country like the UK, one can at any time leave the UK and go live somewhere else. The old adage "When you are in Rome do as the Romans do" still applies today. Respectable people always respect the customs of the country; Western female journalists and photographers on duty in Muslim countries like Iraq, Afghanistan etc always wear a veil or some cover for the head or face out of respect - or fear or whatever; so why should Muslims in Western countries still cover their heads or faces as if they were still living in a Muslim country? One can't and should not tolerate this behaviour anymore in the West; it's about time that we stop bending over backwards to accomodate the Muslim minorities in Western Christian countries simply not to appear that we are in any way being intolerant. Muslims are allowed to practise their religion in Western countries, but this fundamental right should not be abused and they should not be allowed to overstep and incite people to murder, simply because some Danish cartoonist decided to draw cartoons of mohammed in Danmark. Muslims should keep in mind that the 'prophet mohammed' has no particular meaning to a christian. But it would be foolhardy for that christian to treat mohammed as a non-entity if he were living in a Muslim country. This should not be construed as being anti-Muslim feeling. This same thing applies to the buddha. In the west the buddha is not considered a sacred being, but he is sacred in buddhist countries. Therefore it follows that publishing cartoons about the buddha in a so-called western country should not bring about any protests from buddhists minorities in that country; but doing the same thing in a predominantly buddhist country would obviously spell trouble for the author.Report as unsuitable
115. Listen Ear / 6:17pm 6 Jan 2007
Why Can't the UK Police Arrest George Bush, Tony Blair, Ehud Olmert and their accomplices on charges of Genocide that has been happening in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon.
The above mentioned actually colluded with each other and ordered the attacks, knowing full well that thousands of innocent people would be slaughtered.
Instead they arrest a geezer with a plackard.. rather than the people behind the worlds's greatest atrocities and crimes against humanity since World War 2.Report as unsuitable
116. Oliver F, UK / 6:35pm 6 Jan 2007
Listen Ear #115
"Why Can't the UK Police Arrest George Bush, Tony Blair, Ehud Olmert and their accomplices on charges of Genocide that has been happening in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon."
I will agree with that if we add Haniyeh (Hamas), President Amanadinajad of Iran, President Assad of Syria and Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah).
Deal?Report as unsuitable
117. Kenneth / 6:57pm 6 Jan 2007
#109
Intolerant secularism, in that religion is excluded from society is not the meaning I give to the word. My interpretation of this flexible word is pegged to the constitution(s) of the various countries that are so called secular. In the United States, it means the freedom to worship however one wishes to worship. Granted that referred to fewer religions at the time but the idea is the same. Religion was to be a right given under the laws made by the constitution and the democratic society. Both constitution and society continue to evolve. If there is a god, (if any religion attracts my attention it would be the "What if there were a god" religion. It might persuade us all to be more responsible as humans if we couldn't write in all the dictums and loopholes), I believe it would have put us here to see if and how well we could evolve toward this so called higher being. Looking down on others because they do not believe in one interrpretation of god or whatever over another is something that must dissappear from the collective being. Ultimately we all must deal with the, god answered question, one on one. Extreme views in such a malleable item such as religion are our worst attribute. We need to be dilligently evolving.Report as unsuitable
118. Alpha, Edinburgh / 7:01pm 6 Jan 2007
Muslim communities relationship with the governemt and local council is a classic example of the tail wagging the dog.
This court case is a milestone in the battle against the unacceptable face of islam ... I wouldn't lose much sleep if the whole lot of them were flew off back to Iran or anyoldstan ... more trouble than their worth.Report as unsuitable
119. mollyfurie, California / 7:02pm 6 Jan 2007
I agree that Islam is full of horrors. But so is the Old Testament. Genocide, infanticide, child rape, ethnic cleansing, polygamy, the death penalty for children declared 'disobedient' by their parents, and for women who are believed not to be virgins when they marry. All cheerfully prescribed by 'god!'
And the OT is the basis for Christianity.
AS long as most religions in the world have their basis in this kind of savagery, some fanatics will resort to violence and find ways to oppress others.
When the Christian Reconstructionists over here in the US say that they want the death penalty for homosexuals and 'witches' they are being biblically correct. When Israel robs the Palestinians of their land, they are following what they - and Christianity - believe to be holy instructions. And when Islamists kill infidels, or stone little girls for becoming pregnant before marriage, they are following their own 'holy' instruction book.
Religion is a real poison of the mind. I would never outlaw it. It must be countered - as with any falsehood - with truth and science and reason. Meanwhile, it is much better to keep our civil institutions secular.Report as unsuitable
120. Listen Ear / 7:13pm 6 Jan 2007
Oliver, I believe we have to put our own house in order before we start condemming others.
Hamas and Hezbollah are defending their country, pretty musch the same as the French, Dutch, Norwegians did during WW2. I would do the same as they do if Israel was attacking and killing Innocent people in the UK.
Amanadinajad.. what is he accused of? Holocaust Denial? I don't think that's a crime in the UK as yet.Buiding a Nuke Power Station? Not illegal and No Evidence otherwise.
Assad of Syria.. I have never heard any evidence against him either.
However,, Over 660,000 Killed in Iraq.. Wounded & Injured could be several times that number. How many peoples homes?
1400 People, mostly innocent civillians in Lebanon
How many slaughtered in Palestine in the past Year?
Look at how the Palestinians are forced to Live!
.. while Blair & Bush Collude with Olmert to allow the Israelis to have a free hand to do what they want in Palestine and Lebanon.Report as unsuitable
121. James.D, turenki, Finland / 7:15pm 6 Jan 2007
Pax, the last question I would ask of anyone is ´´What's your religion?´´It matters not a whit what you or anyone else believes, to me it is a private thing.I don't think it's possible to make an oath to the collective population, if not to the head of state, (HM Queen) then it must be to the government, which at present is headed by Tony Bliar.I take exception to you calling me stupid, I will accept your apology anytime.I do however agree, if they can't or wont fit in with us, then they should F### offReport as unsuitable
122. Bill Warner, Florida, the winter home of Arab terrorists. / 7:29pm 6 Jan 2007
Hang "Umran Javed", hang him high just liike Sadam and hang every other Muslim "Brother" that wants to destroy Western society !
I'm fed up with this Muslim trash talking over some silly cartoons or over some TSA profiling, too bad "Brother Muslim Umran" this is the real world and all the terrorists in the last 10 years have been Muslims, so yes, you are going to be profiled at our airports !
So this is how it is "Brother Muslim" you want to blow up the USA or the UK, well you better keep watch over your shoulder, because there are a lot of people just like me that are watching you and your pals 24/7 who can, and will, "take care of business".
Bill WarnerPrivate InvestigatorWBI Inc Terrorism Research Centerhttp://www.wbipi.com/Report as unsuitable
123. mollyfurie, California / 7:36pm 6 Jan 2007
#120 all too true and we have reaped the whirlwind. Our leaders, partly under the influence of religion, have acted very badly in the Muslim world. And the situation in Israel owes much to relgious conviction as well.
None of that means that western secularism should foster fanaticism in its own midst.
All over Europe and in America in recent years, it has been necessary to pass laws against such forgotten barbarisms as honor killings, forced marriages, and female genital mutilation.
Let's get out of the Mid East, and inform those who wish to migrate to our countries of our set of values, so that they understand that westerners have the right to satirize religion, read and write pretty much what they want, and fatwas are not tolerated.
Probably most European and US, UK, and AU citizens would agree to that. It is the rulers who want the oil. And not to buy, but to control.Report as unsuitable
124. mollyfurie, California / 7:41pm 6 Jan 2007
Glad you said IN THE LAST TEN YEARS #122! Because I remember all those clinic bombings and the Oklahoma City bombing. All home grown 100% genuine American redneck, weren't they?
Oh - and since I wasn't born yesterday, I remember very well that the KKK still had real power in the South as late as the 50s.Report as unsuitable
125. Reading Public, Wisc, USA / 7:52pm 6 Jan 2007
Bill, Mollyfurie, my sentiments exactly. I won't get on my soapbox about our borders and social security and our politicians.Report as unsuitable
126. W Smith, Middle East / 8:01pm 6 Jan 2007
#119 mollyfurieSounds like a Palestinian smoke screen for badly behaving muslims!
"Religion is a poison of the mind.."
1) Che Geuvara, the communist, executed people without trial, if he thought you were guilty then it was bye-bye. Stalin,the communist, was responsible for killing more than 100,000 Ukrainians. Fidel Castro has also jailed and killed people without trial.
2) Absence of religion or personal faith doesn't guarantee freedom, justice, peace or prosperity - I take it you never saw the movie The Killing Fields about the atrocities commited by the 'secular' Left in Cambodia.
"..when the Christian Reconstructionists over here.."
Adolf Hitler executed homosexuals but he wasn't a born-again christian fundamentalist - he was Catholic (just like Robert Mugabe). Both these catholics have also done a fair bit of land grabing - have they not?
JFK was Catholic and he was the one that started America's involvement in Vietnam with around 16,000 'military advisers' present in the country. The Vietnam war then escalated under another left-wing democrat (Protestant) President Lyndon Baine Johnson.
Not all of America's wars/atrocities can be blamed on the Protestant Christian Fundamentalists in the Republican Party - correct?
Nice try Molly!Report as unsuitable
127. Faye, Scotland / 8:04pm 6 Jan 2007
#27 "Are you incapable of debate". Well Look at your debating skills! Quotes #84, #85 "Don't you dare".
You've proved my point exactly.
Clearly some people can't hack any comment about religion.
The problem with religious extremists seems to be that they go off in a tangent with threats and taunts. Bullyboy tactics don't work.
That's why extremists need to be dealt with.
That's why the state shouldn't pay to allow such breeding grounds to exist in the first place.
Anyone who can't hack comments about religion has a problem.
Did someone mention fish and chips? Fish please, lets leave the chips for folks with problems!Report as unsuitable
128. Sambo, The deep south / 8:20pm 6 Jan 2007
Radical muslims are like wild animals, they are usually led like a pack and are riled up by whoever cracks the whip.Radical muslims are bullies, they bully women and are intolerent to other faiths.Report as unsuitable
129. mollyfurie, California / 8:23pm 6 Jan 2007
#126 - actually the Vietnam debacle began with Eisenhower - Kennedy inherited it (as he inherited a number of other pet GOP projects like the Bay of Pigs) and if you watch the Fog of War, you will hear audio evidence that JFK was planning a withdrawal.
Another tape - this time between Macnamara and Johnson, indicates that LBJ 'never agreed' with Kennedy that 'we should just leave' and Macnamara being the tractable nice guy he was, led us on for another 5 years after which Nixon took over.
And of course, you don't have to have religion, per se, to start forrible episodes. But I would argue that Stalin's communism and Hitler's philosophy are definitely a kind of fanatical, authoritarian fundamentalism - using the same mechanisms of the psyche. Back in the 60s I met a doctrinaire Marxist who just went on and on about how Marx was always right, etc. After awhile I asked him about his life previous to Marx. He was a fundamentalist Chritian just as I suspected. The content was very different but his absolutism was exactly the same.
Certainly Pol Pot was a religious fanatic - his faith was so strong he decided all the rivers in the country should be forced into a grid. Affecting that phenomenon entailed trying to make the waterways run uphill. But his faith was strong! And as in times past - the witch burning times, for instance, or the 'conversion of Native Americans to Christ - the deaths were as nothing to the spread of Truth.Report as unsuitable
130. Doreen, The Cyber Shebeen / 8:28pm 6 Jan 2007
119....Your damn right!Report as unsuitable
131. mollyfurie, California / 8:28pm 6 Jan 2007
WHAT Palestinian smokescreen for 'badly behaving muslims"?? The Palestinians aren't acting any worse than the Israelis - or at least, if they are, they are certainly losing! Because every week sees more Palestinian land under Israel's control, more water taken from them, more cropland bulldozed, more homes destroyed and a few more children 'accidentally' shot.
And have you heard what some of the settlers say? They say that the Palestinians have no rights that they are bound to recognize because THEY are the 'sons of god' and the Palestinians are the SERVANTS of god! (Ignoring the fact that many Palestinians are - or were - Christians - now leaving Bethlehem as fast as they can go.Report as unsuitable
132. Bill Warner, Florida, the winter home of Arab terrorists. / 8:30pm 6 Jan 2007
What the hell are you talking about "mollyfurie", people like Umran Javed want to kill all the ;infidels", even left coast wimps like you.
Umran Javed and the rest of his Al-Muhajiroun pals incite these "protests" as a means of calling attention to themselves and aid in recruiting new members who in due time end up as suicide bombers (London Metro/bus bombing).
The only "redneck" is going to be yours and others like you as they are slit by Muslim "Brothers" unless you wake up and get out of your "smoke" filled VW bus to what is really going on.
Bill Warnerhttp://www.wbipi.com/Report as unsuitable
133. Jackie, Fife / 8:31pm 6 Jan 2007
People from the old Commonwealth countries have always came to UK and been made welcome, and made genuine contributions to our country and society. Because of this I have friends who are Hindu, Bhuddist, Jewish and Moslem, or have no religion at all. I am a practicing Christian, and will neither appologise for this or deny my faith. My friends and I do, from time to time, discuss different aspects of our faiths, and all agree that all PC does is cause more trouble and animosity.
Also, for many years, the excuses (or in some cases real reasons) a lot of folk outwith the Commonwealth gave for coming to the UK from Middle East, African, and Asian countries was that they needed political asylum, they were in fear of their lives, and also the lives of their families. OK as a civilised and caring nation we should give shelter to people in times like that. But, once the threat has been removed, these people and their families (regardless of whether they have had children or grandchildren born in this country) should be told ok, threat to you and yours in now gone, go back and help your own country to rebuild. They should not have a choice in this matter. If they really did love their own country they would want to return anyway. Any who did wish to remain here, should be prepared to be British (or Scottish after May)and accept they will have to live accordingly. If the women wish to wear veils as part of their old national costume on high days and holidays fine, but our laws will not be ammended so women can do so as a right.
As to the bleating politicians, do gooders and PC brigade. HOW DARE they allow, or make allowances for anyone who comes to this country and abuses the freedom our parents, grand-parents and at present, sons, husbands, brothers, and sisters fought or are fighting for. In order to spread hate and violence in a way they would not dare to do in their own barbaric countries.Report as unsuitable
134. mollyfurie, California / 8:35pm 6 Jan 2007
Excuse me Bill W - do you really think I am defending terrorists or those who make death threats? I am not. I've just seen that face before - and I didn't have to look all that far. Try alabama in the 60s. . . . .Report as unsuitable
135. Oliver F, UK / 8:35pm 6 Jan 2007
Listen ear #120
"Hamas and Hezbollah are defending their country"
Yes they are. The innocent women and children on buses blown up by suicide bombers are really threatening Hamas/hezbollah. This self-defence argument can be used with the same justification by Israel too.
"Amanadinajad.. what is he accused of?"
Oh lets see. Financially and militarily supporting terrorist groups throughout the middle east eg Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Hezbollah. Then you have the iranian backing of the shia death squads in Iraq. Need I continue?
"Assad of Syria.. I have never heard any evidence against him either"
Well you cant be listening very well then. Assad and syria are another of the worlds prime supporters of terrorism. They interfere in lebanon with hezbollah and again support Hamas etc. Yes the americans support Israel but if you are going to have the americans tried for genocide lets be even handed and have assad there too."1400 People, mostly innocent civillians in Lebanon"
Whats your definition of a civilian? I suspect we may differ on this. You see, I dont consider someone using a machine gun to shoot israelis or fire rockets into israel a civilian. Most of you apologists for terrorism count these in the casualty numbers.
What about the women and children, along with men, in houses containing tens of Qassam rockets that are to be used to fire at israel? Are they really civilians? I would argue not. They are allowing their homes to be used as warehouses of equipment to be used in attacks therefore making them legitimate targets.
"Look at how the Palestinians are forced to Live!"
They are partly responsible for their circumstances. They voted into government Hamas. A terrorist organisation. Now they complain the west wont support them now. Good. They should have thought of that before. Along with rights in a democracy go responsibilities. They exercised their right to vote for who they want now they have to take the consequences as we all do.Report as unsuitable
136. Bill Warner, Florida, the winter home of Arab terrorists. / 8:47pm 6 Jan 2007
Try alabama in the 60s. . ??????
Try 9/11/2001 mollyfurie, try 3/11/2004/ try 7/11/2005, were are not in the 50's or the 60's anymore, it is the infidels (us) against radical islam, it is not a white vs black thing (or person of color) as you lamely infer.
Wake up mollyfurie and put down the pipe.
Bill Warnerhttp://www.wbipi.com/Report as unsuitable
137. mollyfurie, California / 8:51pm 6 Jan 2007
#135 - oh yeah the Palestinians are completely responsible. If, when the Israelis came to take their land, their homes, and their businesses, they just handed them over, NO PROBLEM! But the fools resist (just like Americans say they would if WE were occupied by a foreign power) and of course any actof violence by a lone person willing to die in the course of it is terrorism, while the bombs dropped on villages by a vastly superior military force funded by the richest and most powerful nation in the world is perfectly ok
If you want to see what is and what has beenhappening in Palestine, check this link out and watch the hour-long video - made by Jews and Palestinians: The Iron Wallhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4866316426876380615&q=the+iron+wall. Watch the strange shape of the barrier taking place - how it manages to enclose illegal settlements and hog the water supply, while destroying farms and villages. Watch the settlers as they harass Palestinians unmolested, and without fear of retribution. See the incredible shrinking land that Israel intends to let the Palestinians have a state on someday. (Yeah right!)Report as unsuitable
138. Sambo, The deep south / 8:52pm 6 Jan 2007
Listen mollyfurie, radical islam is targeting your Ass as we speak, so wake up!!Report as unsuitable
139. mollyfurie, California / 9:04pm 6 Jan 2007
#136 Don't tell me the old KKK mentality isn't still at work in the South, where hundreds of thousands of black voters were illegally wiped off of the voter rolls! Or in Ohio. Or among so many of our urban police departments. I think McVeigh was as much a terrorist as Osama - only that was TWELVE years ago, so it doesn't fit into your convenient 10-year time frame and apparently doesn't count - for those who were born yesterday. Nor do the abortion clinic bombings and killings of doctors. Or the Under the Banner of Heaven murders, etc.
None of that excuses terrorism or death threats or the attempt to silence cartoonists or brilliant, humanist writers like Salman Rushdie. None of it, either, excuses the totalitarian techniques our government has used against MOVE or Ruby Ridge - and plenty of others as well. It's just that the terrorist mentality isn't unique to Islam There's plenty of it in the roots of Judaism and Christianity - and probably the rest of them, too.Report as unsuitable
140. Bill Warner, Florida, the winter home of Arab terrorists. / 9:07pm 6 Jan 2007
Ha, I knew it, mollyfurie in CA is on the pipe, see below;
Medical marijuana card will cost $150 per yearFrom: mollyfurie@webtv.netDate: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:14:11 -0700 (PDT)To: cp@telelists.comSubject: [cp] $150 medical mj card?
Mind you, I am a Californian - but am wondering - will the state ofOregon use some of that money to defend marijuana using patients it haslicensed from the Feds? r will you just get another "right" that willget you put in jail ?
Above quote from "Mile High" mollyfurie in CA, sure seems worried about the weed and the "feds".
bill Warnerhttp://www.wbipi.com/Report as unsuitable
141. mollyfurie, California / 9:11pm 6 Jan 2007
Don't worry Bill, I am at least as sober as you are. Probably more so.Report as unsuitable
142. mollyfurie, California / 9:14pm 6 Jan 2007
And, dear friend, someday I predict you will know and maybe love someone with a painful, possibly terminal, disease, unable to eat because of chemo, losing weight precipitously, in constant pain. Or someone with epilepsy, for whom cannabis is the safest and surest preventative or remedy.
But you will hold to your stern ideas and make sure that they don't slip into illegal drug use won't you? After all, the rountinely prescribed concoctions for those conditions - although they kill more people every year than any non-prescription drug or illegal drug (look up the stats) sometimes almost work, don't they?Report as unsuitable
143. Listen Ear / 9:41pm 6 Jan 2007
Oliver F # 135
The difference between the Israeli Soldier and Hamas / Hezbollah.. is the Israelis have F15 and F16 Jets, Drones with Missiles, Helicopter Gunships, Tanks, armoured cars, Armoured Bulldozers. Multiple Rocket Launchers, cluster bombs and Navy Ships to attack and kill innocent Civillians in Palestine and Lebanon.
Hamas and Hezbollah have the odd AK47, explosives, home made squibs and their flesh and blood.
Everyone always refers to the "Arab" suicide bomber that blew himself up in a bus or outside a disco..... What about the Israelis that have Bombed, Shelled and Killed thousands upon thousands of Women and Children.
What about the thousands of homes bulldozed.. just so some immigrant Jews can steal Palestinian land.
Then you say Amanadinajad is backing Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Hezbollah.. I think you will find funding for these organisations is coming from within IRAQ, from Saudi and other Arab and Muslim Countries...
Again, you say Syria support Hammas and Hezbollah..
If they have done this, ask why?Israel has annexed most of Palestine, invaded and killed over 1400 innocent people, mostly women and children in Lebanon.
If these countries did not get support from other Arab Countries, the chances are, Israel would have completely annexed them by now.
Look at Hammas.. a few hundred armed civillians.. scattered here and there.. Home made rocketsLook at Hezbollah.. a few thousand civillians that have learnt to fire anti-tank weapons.
.. this is hardly being funded by anyone in a manner that can threaten Israel..
The USA is sending hundreds of Millions $$$ worth of Military hardware to the Israelis and the US is spending Billions themselves.
So.. we had best stick to Arresting Blair, Bush, Olmert and their Accomplicers and leave the Poor Protesters alone.Report as unsuitable
144. Oliver F, UK / 9:54pm 6 Jan 2007
Listen Ear #143
"What about the Israelis that have Bombed, Shelled and Killed thousands upon thousands of Women and Children."
As I said above, listen ear, your definition of civilian probably differs greatly from mine. You argue they are "protesters" but I am sure the innocent israeli men, women and children on buses and discos would say different. This romantic bullsh*t about the palestinians being freedom fighters is nonsense. That may hold true if they attacked the israeli soliders but they attack innocent, unarmed civilians. Note: not people living in homes full of qassam rockets.
"Again, you say Syria support Hammas and Hezbollah..
If they have done this, ask why?"
So you are now admitting that syria has supported hezbollah and hamas? Thank you. That was my point. Syria and Iran are just as bad as the US and Uk. The only difference is the side they choose to back.
"What about the thousands of homes bulldozed.. just so some immigrant Jews can steal Palestinian land."
Wouldnt those be the omes being bulldozed that were being used to smuggle in arms or the homes of suicide bombers? In my opinion, fair enough.
As for the "wall" I will admit that some of the routing choices of the wall may be highly questionable but Israel has a right to defend herself from suicide bombers and the wall is an attempt at that.Report as unsuitable
145. Scot Easy, New York City / 9:58pm 6 Jan 2007
All this sound and fury over one tiny demo? It seems to me a bit of a hurricane in a hubble-bubble. We shouldn't go ballisitic every time a couple of babies get all red in the face about something, should we? A few loonies shouting about bombing the Little Mermaid isn't the same thing as, let's say, flying aeroplanes into tall buildings. Is it?
In the old days, a couple of Rebus's woolly-suits would have given the bomber babies a warning and hauled them off for a night in the cells, and serve them right. But huffing and puffing about conspiracy to murder just makes them seem more important than they are, makes them seem persecuted and turns them into martyrs. We really don't need any more of those!
As for those tartan thugs and Irn-bru bigots above...I'd pop them in a cell with the bomber babies. Maybe they'd learn something from each other.
.Report as unsuitable
146. AM, Glasgow / 10:02pm 6 Jan 2007
#4
Anjem Choudary. Oh the irony... surely not the same guy who *allegedly* said in a television interview about the row over the Pope that anyone who insulted the Muslim faith would be "subject to capital punishment"?!Report as unsuitable
147. AM, Glasgow / 10:15pm 6 Jan 2007
Anjem Choudary on 7/7:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C73ePf_2KVw
Anjem Choudary on Abu Izzadeen:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv704B93EZU Report as unsuitable
148. Infidel, Dar ul harb / 10:16pm 6 Jan 2007
Listen Ear has been listening only to the anti-Israel propaganda. Talk of Palestinians defending "their" land is strange considering that there never was a country called "Palestine". "Palestine" was invented to provide a stick to beat the Israelis with while all the time its people have been kept in misery by fellow Mohammedans in order to show how wicked the Jews are. If the fortunes spent on arming them and perpetuating the conflict had been spent instead on development and construction they'd be thriving by now. Listen Ear also needs to take a closer look at President Ahmamadnutjob of Iran. When someone calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, and states that he believes he is divinely appointed to prepare for the return of the Mahdi who will lead a rejuvenated Islam to victory over the world I get worried. I get more worried when this same loon is building nukes. As for those 1400 dead in Lebanon, perhaps if Hezbollah had not used them as shields they would still be alive. Listen Ear is silent on this, maybe he thinks it is quite OK to hide behind women and children?Report as unsuitable
149. mollyfurie, California / 10:19pm 6 Jan 2007
#144 "As for the "wall" I will admit that some of the routing choices of the wall may be highly questionable but Israel has a right to defend herself from suicide bombers and the wall is an attempt at that."
Oh that's not the half of it and you know it. The theft of Palestinianland has been ongoing, through ceasefires and intifadas and 'land for peace' deals, from the beginning and without cease, and many in Israel don't even deny that they want ALL of it. THEY say god gave it to them. Isn't that nice? So any person of the Jewish faith from any country in the world can go there and live on Palestinian land preferably, while Palestinians who were born there have no right of return, and husbands and wives who live on opposite sides of the wall cannot live together.
The Israelis have killed a lot more Palestinians than the other way around. Of course, THEY have an airforce and a nuclear arsenal, if they feel like suicide bombing themselves.Report as unsuitable
150. Harry Carnie, British Columbia, Canada. / 10:25pm 6 Jan 2007
#139 mollyfurie.. agree, cannabis should be legallized.( The "nonthinkers" stop this from happening)But ..closer to the topic..in SPITE of what ANY religious belivers say. MAN IS AN ANIMAL.
He IS NOT INTELLIGENT.(only in rare cases) He is however, incredibly resourceful and CUNNING.Religion is ONE of the excuses that is used to torture ,maim ,and kill his fellow being.
There are A SMALL AMOUNT OF WONDERFUL ( and to a degree ,intelligent ) people in the world .
These individuals,have a GENUINE concern for their fellow man, AND are not motivated by "reward" or "punishment" from some make believe "GOD".(sounds as though you are one..??More power to you!)Report as unsuitable
151. Menzies / 10:35pm 6 Jan 2007
#13 Faramars: if he didn't intend to incite murder and killing then he should have used other words or kept his mouth shut. He didn't do either. His own words have condemned him as they constitute hate mongering and incitement to do harm to others by the legal standards of our society.
Tell me your society would have been as tolerant, just and forgiving as you are asking this one to be, if a white male had stood in your capital city yelling "Bomb Iran" or other "slogans" or "soundbites"? I'd be very surprised if the poor sod lived five minutes after the first yell.
He wasn't found guilty because he's a muslim, Mr. Choudary, but because he crossed the line and abused the freedoms and privileges of this society. He broke the law. Period.Report as unsuitable
152. mollyfurie, California / 10:58pm 6 Jan 2007
#148"" Talk of Palestinians defending "their" land is strange considering that there never was a country called "Palestine"."
Funny. The Romans called it Palestine. The Egyptians still call the Palestinians Philistines - ring a bell? The Philistines, Canaanites, and other ethnic groups now extinct for some odd reason, were the inhabitants of Israel when the first Israelis got there. Read your bible - it's all there. They were ordered by god and Moses to slaughter the inhabitants and take their cattle, goods, houses, and especially and always, their virgin girls. But they were supposed to dash the brains of the 'little ones' out against stones. Well that was then, this is now.
If there was no Palestine, why did Anne Frank in her diary mention that her sister's ambition was to be a midwife in Palestine?
Here are just a few Zionist quotes from history - if history matters:
Israel Zangwill, who had visited Palestine in 1897 and came face-to-face with the demographic reality, stated :"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us."..............................................In an article published by Ben-Gurion in 1918, titled "The Rights of the Jews and others in Palestine," he conceded that the Palestinian Arabs have the same rights as Jews. He explained that Palestinians had these rights since they had inhabited the land "for hundreds of years". He stated in the article:
"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." Ben-Gurion often returned to this point, emphasizing that Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic, cultural, and communal life, but not political......................................................Moshe Dayan stated in an oration at the funeral of an Israeli farmer killed by a Palestinian Arab in April 1956:

From the Scotman Online, Daily Newspaper; Saddam's Last Ride

2007-01-01T12:31:00.001-04:00

Weeping Iraqis at the grave in Aujah where Saddam Hussein was buried yesterday.Picture: Wael al-Samuraei/EPA
Saddam's last journey, on a pick-up truck
STEPHEN MCGINTY (
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//]]>
mailto:smcginty@scotsman.com?subject=Saddam)
HE WAS buried in the darkness before dawn, his body inside a plain wooden box.
Saddam Hussein had been carried on his final journey from Baghdad to Tikrit on board an armoured United States helicopter. The last leg, from Tikrit to an open grave in Aujah, the village of his birth, was even more ignominious: the plain wooden coffin bumped about on the back of a white pick-up truck.

The Iraqi government had wished to bury the dictator, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his fellow countrymen during more than three decades in power, in a secret, unmarked grave.
Yet negotiations in Baghdad between government ministers, US officials and Ali al-Nida, the head of the Albu-Nassir tribal clan to which Saddam belonged, led to the dictator being granted something which he denied to tens of thousands of his victims: a marked grave.
Members of his extended family now plan to build a presidential library and a religious school, dedicated to the memory of Iraq's most monstrous ruler.
"We want to make this place an appropriate and suitable edifice," declared Muayad al-Hazaa, who said he was a cousin of the late dictator.
The body was delivered to Tikrit, his former stronghold 80 miles from Baghdad, by the US military in the early hours of yesterday morning. The body was stripped of the clothes worn at his execution on Saturday, ritually bathed, as is the custom for a Muslim burial, and covered in a white shroud. The coffin was then taken to a mosque, built in the 1980s when the dictator was at the height of his powers, where a short service was held.
Afterwards, the coffin was loaded on to the white pick-up truck for the short journey to Aujah, a small settlement of unusually grand homes - signs of the prosperity it had enjoyed during the rule of its most famous son, who was born there 69 years ago.
More than 2,000 people had gathered in the town, many weeping. A grave had been dug in the earth floor of a religious hall and it was there, in the presence of local officials and the tribal leaders who had played a major role in his rise to power, that he was buried.
The coffin was first draped with the Iraqi flag and, in memory of the strongman he once was, a framed photograph of the dictator rested on a plastic chair. The funeral began at 3.05am - just after midnight UK time - and lasted roughly 25 minutes.
Among those who attended was Mohammed al-Qaisi, the governor of the local Salahaddin region, who had helped negotiate the release of the body.
Saddam's current resting spot is two miles from the cemetery where his sons, Uday and Qusay, killed by US troops in Mosul in July 2003, lie in a family plot.
It was near Aujah that Saddam was discovered hiding in an underground bunker on 13 December, 2003, eight months after he fled Baghdad ahead of advancing US troops.
Yesterday, however, the former dictator was praised as a hero by mourners. Among those who knelt by his flag-draped coffin was Salam Hassan al-Nasseri, 45, one of his clansmen. He said: "I condemn the way he was executed and I consider it a crime."
Um Abdullah, a Sunni and teacher in Tikrit, said she would wear black to mourn the city's favourite son and said: "Saddam will be a hero in our eyes. I have five kids and I will teach them to take revenge on Americans."
The description of Saddam as a "broken man" by the Iraqi government was thrown into doubt yesterday when more footage of his execution emerged which revealed him to have been calm and scornful of his captors. Despite the taunts of his hooded executioners, he insisted he was Iraq's saviour, not its tyrant.
According to Mowaffak al-Rubaie, Iraq's national security adviser, one of the guards shouted at Saddam: "You have destroyed us. You have killed us. You have made us live in destitution."
Saddam replied: "I have saved you from destitution and misery, and destroyed your enemies, the Persians and Americans."
The guard then shouted, "God damn you", to which the former dictator replied: "God damn you."
Saddam appeared to smile at those taunting him from below the gallows. He said they were not showing manhood. According to an unabridged copy of the same tape - apparently shot with a camera phone and posted on a website - the former tyrant then began reciting the Shahada, a Muslim prayer that says there is no god but God and Muhammad is his messenger.
Saddam made it to midway through his second recitation of the verse before the trapdoor opened and he fell to his death. His last words were: "I bear witness that Muhammad ..."
The new film - low-quality images on the internet - showed Saddam actually being hanged. The footage released by the government after his execution had not.
"The tyrant has fallen," someone in the group of onlookers shouted in the video, which showed a close-up of Saddam's face as he swung from the rope. His eyes remained open.
Then came another voice: "Let him swing for three minutes."
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=5762007
Last updated: 01-Jan-07 00:23 GMT
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Saddam Hussein is No More, should Mahmoud Ahamadinejad be the Next one to be Executed

2006-12-31T14:32:00.001-04:00

Well, now the entire world has heard of the Execution of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, for Crimes against humanity maybe Iranian President Mahmoud Ahamadinejad should be next,. Only this time they should sent this one to the Hague Tribunal where it is a more objedtive kind of Justice.

Merry Christmas Joyeux Noel, Feliz Navidud

2006-12-24T19:58:00.001-04:00

I would like to take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes for a blessed and peaced filled Christmas, and of course, all of the best for the coming New Year of 2007.

It is my sincere hope and prayer that each and everyone who has visited this blog and will vitsi this blog and your families and loved ones has the best of health and happiness to enjoy the benefits of this special time of year.

Blessings to one and all always.

Sinceely!

Michael G. McKay.

Duaine Dog Chapman The Bounty Hunter

2006-12-22T23:34:00.001-04:00

Dog The Bounty Hunter is the something we need hee in our city because he seems to be able to get the job done, and help those who find themselves in the throws of addiction and other criminal activity to go straight. I personally like his style because he just cuts through the so-called red tape and gets thing done.

From the Scotsman online Daily Newspaper. 20 Deceber 2996 Widespread use of methadone 'fails to tackle the damage of drug abuse'

2006-12-20T22:43:00.001-04:00

Use of the heroin substitute methadone is on the rise in Scotland, but a report has shown that drug-related crime has also risen in the past five years.Picture:

By Toby Williams

MICHAEL HOWIE HOME AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (
//=0;i-=2){d+=unescape('%'+e.substr(i,2));};document.write(d);
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mhowie@scotsman.com)
SCOTLAND'S reliance on methadone is failing to tackle the damage wreaked on society by drug abuse, it was claimed yesterday, as new figures showed a massive rise in the use of the heroin substitute.
A record 457,092 methadone prescriptions were issued to heroin addicts in 2005-6, compared with 408,877 the previous year and 45 per cent more than in 2001-2.

Methadone is intended to stabilise heroin users' addiction, satisfying their desire for the drug while removing the need for them to resort to crime and prostitution.
But the efficacy of Scotland's methadone policy was questioned last night as new figures showed a steady rise in drug-related crime in the past five years, with offences committed by addicts to service their habits increasing from 36,175 in 2001 to 42,150 this year.
The report also showed that the number of people convicted of drug offences more than doubled over the same period.
Professor Neil McKeganey, of the Centre for Drug Misuse Research at Glasgow University, said GPs were too reliant on methadone. In a recent report, he found that, three years after going on a methadone course, only 3 per cent of addicts remained totally drug-free.
Prof McKeganey said: "Methadone is being provided to far too many addicts for far too long. The problem with methadone is that people are still dependent on drugs.
"Our research has shown that methadone addicts continue to commit crime," he added.
"Methadone does not appear to be the route to reduce harm associated with drug use."
That provoked an angry reaction from Dr Richard Simpson, the former drugs minister and consultant psychiatrist who prescribes methadone to addicts.
He said: "There are patients on methadone for 20 years who are holding down very responsible jobs. All the international research on methadone shows it is a highly effective treatment for heroin addiction. Research has also shown that methadone leads to a reduction in deaths. Is that not reducing harm?."
But he and Prof McKeganey agreed that the Executive had so far failed to provide enough treatment services to get people off drugs.
Labour sources have indicated an imminent policy shift away from managing addictions towards "cold turkey" approaches, and a pilot drug-abstinence programme in Edinburgh was launched in the autumn with £800,000 of Scottish Executive funding.
An Executive spokeswoman said yesterday: "We do not promote one type of treatment over another. We have been steadily increasing the range of options available.
"We are also undertaking a review of the place of methadone in drug treatment."
Related topics
Drugs policyhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=220
Heroinhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1888122006
Last updated: 20-Dec-06 00:35 GMT
Comments Add your comment
1. famous 15 / 1:25am 20 Dec 2006
For years I agreed with the methadone route for addicts till it became obvious that it was simply a "freeze frame" not a solution. In fact it was worse since a number of deaths of users showed it was in fact being traded. Prohibition only assists organised crime. Solve that problem!!!Report as unsuitable
2. jimboo, the wemyss / 1:56am 20 Dec 2006
What concerns me about the figures is that we cannot differentiate between those who have self refered to the drugs agencies and those who have been refered through the criminal justice system. CJS referals fail, self referals seem to have a 25% to 30% success rate. Medicinalising heroin supplies also undermines the economic base off supplying drugs. Methadone prescription and limited heroin prescription could work when combined with social action..Report as unsuitable
3. scottwebb.co.uk / 2:11am 20 Dec 2006
mmmm taking out the drug dealers might helpReport as unsuitable
4. zenith, usa / 4:33am 20 Dec 2006
How utterly blind. The inventors of MMT, Dr's Dole and Nyswander, specifically stated that it was not important how long an addict remained on MMT, as long as they were becoming useful citizens. It IS meant to be used as a long term treatment for MANY addicts, due to the permanent damage done to their natural endorphin systems. Methadone, in these people, simply normalizes their brain chemistry--without it, they suffer severe depression and chemical imbalances which no amount of "cold turkey" rehab programs can treat or cure, and no antidepressants will touch. In many people, addiction is not about how abused they were as kids or a "spiritual bankruptcy", but instead, it is about a chemical imbalance in the brain that they are trying to self medicate with opiates.
And trying to say that methadone is ineffective because only 3% are off methadone in 3 years is like saying anyone who is still on insulin in 3 years for diabetes is a treatment failure! It's a chronic disease and in many cases needs a chronic medication. This is a disaster waiting to happen.Report as unsuitable
5. W Smith, Middle East / 5:35am 20 Dec 2006
"There are patients on methadone for 20 years who are holding down very responsible jobs." - Dr Richard Simpson.
Really?
(Let's hope Dr Simpson isn't talking about airline pilots, lorry drivers and surgeons!)
In the 90's, all the drug addicts from around my area in Scotland were spaced out of their heads most of the time. A lot of them went to different pharmacies around town trying to get more than their daily dosage.
The picture that Dr Simpson is painting is totally misleading and sounds like trendy loony-left spin.
I would suggest Dr Simpson goes and talks to the staff in Dundee/Edinburgh/Glasgow pharmacies and ask them if these particular clients are capable of holding down 'very responsible jobs.'
My guess is that supplying methadone to drug addicts in the UK has cost the tax payers BILLIONS since this so-called 'treatment' started.
The comment "..the Executive has so far failed to provide enough treatment services..". This sounds like a call for even more money to be spent on experts, consultants, social workers, 'education', and quangos.
It was only months ago that Ben Elton was allowed to stand up in the Scottish Parliament to promote legalising certain drugs.
(Mr Elton is not volunteering to live in the dreary Glasgow or Edinburgh council house estates where drug use is rampant. He prefers to stay in the posh drug free suburb of Freemantle, Perth, Australia!)Report as unsuitable
6. Harriet / 5:40am 20 Dec 2006
Zenith said "not important how long an addict remained on MMT, as long as they were becoming useful citizens".
The difficulty is that for too many addicts seeking a way out of their addiction, methadone becomes a new, substitute addiction.
For medical advisors it becomes a way of, to echo another story in today's paper, to chemically "cosh" addicts so they cause less trouble.
Once the addict is on methadone, and apparently causing less trouble, their medical priority falls dramatically and they languish well below the priority of actually getting further help from grossly over-worked doctors.
Treating addicts is NOT glamorous or exciting and attracts docs only to the extent that they have to do "something".
Ask an addict if they want to get clean, as Prof McKeganey has, and you find the majority don't want "help", they want "clean".
Methadone has become a vast chemical park of addiction.
Cheap? - yes!Successful? - hardly!A long term answer? - certainly not!Report as unsuitable
7. Yvonne Smith, Melbourne / 5:43am 20 Dec 2006
I am in complete aggreement with Mr W Smith. Having worked in pharmacy for years, the methadone programme is an absolute joke. Why in the love of God we have to pay tax to feed their own stupid habit is beyond me.
Whoever Zenith is, she or he is clueless when it comes to disease states. No one asks for diabetes. If she/he had any sense they would realise you are responsible for your own health and can't help what you get genetically. Zenith sounds like a fruit cake who obviously doesnt have to pay half of her/his wages in tax!
I think she/he is the one with the chemical imbalance and would want to wake up to real problems in the world. Or maybe she/he puts poverty in the third world down to a chemical imbalance too!
Yours sincerely,Yvonne.Report as unsuitable
8. Guga, Rockall / 6:43am 20 Dec 2006
They will never put a stop to drug usage in this country; regardless of how much money they throw at the problem by way of either law enforcement or any form of rehabilitation. There is too much money to be made out of drug dealing to stop it.
In reality, there are two choices, and only two choices when it comes to illegal drugs.
The first choice is to impose very severe sentences on anyone found in possession of any quantity of drugs, including life sentences for dealers, and confiscation of their proceeds of crime.
The second choice is for the government to give junkies all the drugs they want, in whatever quantities they want.
The latter choice would seem to be the one with the most likelihood of success as it will immediately solve a very high percentage of our crime problem, and put all the dealers out of business. Also, if they are given as many drugs as they want, the junkies will eventually kill themselves; so that will solve the problem too.Report as unsuitable
9. Rulesbutnotrulers, East Lothian. / 7:14am 20 Dec 2006
Supply addicts through self-financing NHS clinics at prices low enough to put criminals out of business.
This will a. reduce the numbers of new victims and b. improve the health and safety of existing users.
It will also help addicts to lead more settled lives and even get on to the jobs ladder.Report as unsuitable
10. Rokki, Santa Cruz,Calif / 7:22am 20 Dec 2006
Methadone is medicine. I say this over and over again. Just as I will need to take my thyroid medication the rest of my life,which I never asked for either,I will need to take methadone. Is a diabetic stigmatized as they inject their medication each day? No! Then why do folks make such a big deal of a medication that works,when the doses are proper for each individual patient. Scotland is famous for under dosing so of course they the patients are going to look to supplement their meds some how. I'm gonna tell ya about Zenith. She could run circles around any of you when ya get down to the Facts,not the myths and un-truths that folks are so easy to pass along. The Truth! Facts from data for over 45 years now showing methadone works. This is how I see it. Methadone is a simple medication for a simple disease. It's the small minds and naysayers who are sucked into the drug war propaganda that make it into this huge mess. Take away the medication and your Crime rate will sky rocket,your death rate will go up,the costs to the emergency rooms will be filled to the top with every ailment imaginable just to try to feel right,not High,but right...normal if you will. Try to educate yourself about this disease and not from the media,they just glorify Stigma and make it worse. Check out sites where Governments now realize this is the way to go to elievate HIV/AIDS/HAV/HBV/HCV/HPV/TB and the list goes on and on. China now has over 300 programs,they just started opening them about a year or so ago. Are your minds that small that you figure if you take away the medication the users will just go someplace else...It's not gonna happen folks..Thanks Kerry for trying to educate these folks. Like Joey Tranchina always says,Boy was Joey right...:)
Happy Holidays AllRokki,who has been on methadone,this time,for 23 years and is very glad she is.Report as unsuitable
11. Cadgers, Perth / 7:28am 20 Dec 2006
I think illegal drugs should be legalised, the tax and vat men will then become involved. Perhaps they would have more luck than the police!Report as unsuitable
12. John1, NZ / 7:40am 20 Dec 2006
Drug addicts puzzle me. With few exceptions they are responsible for being in the mess they are in yet they become abusive when people complain about being taxed to 'help' them. I recall a councillor of my aquaintance who asked an addict why they shoplifted when they were given benefits. The answer was "we use the benefits to buy drugs and then steal to buy food." I also recall Stirlng Council officers saying smugly that the Council's policy was 'harm reduction.' 'Harm reduction' means giving the addicts clean needles, drugs etc. Getting them off drugs was not an aim. 'Cold Turkey' may be unpleasant but the question is 'does it work?' i.e. does it get people off drugs? That is what should be the aim. I will not object to my taxes being spent on helping people to get off drugs, even if it's their own stupid fault that they are on them in the first place, but I certainly object to them being spent on feeding the habit and enriching the dealers who supply these inadequates with their fixes.Report as unsuitable
13. eric / 7:50am 20 Dec 2006
My yonger brother Has been on Methadone for 13yrs ,It Doesnt work,Hes been trying to seek help for 4yrs now and cant get it,He still throws all sorts down his neck ,Its his own fault, he doesnt dispute thatReport as unsuitable
14. Lumber Jack, Scotland / 8:05am 20 Dec 2006
Some facts to start with: No one I know decided to become a drug addict their drug use just snowballed. It is difficult to come off drugs but not impossible. For some unknown reason, in Scotland, methadone does not work as method of weaning people of heroin so something else has to be done. No doubt we'll get responses on here along the lines of shoot them etc etc but something has to be done about the problem. I am all for trying other methods such as re-hab and free heroin but only as part of a reduction method. If users were given free heroin crime rates would fall as there would be no need for a drug user to rob your granny, steal your car radio etc.Report as unsuitable
15. Antonine Plato, Glasgow / 9:24am 20 Dec 2006
http://platosway.blogspot.com
I'm sorry but the severe sentence or give them drugs is the only way approach doesn't really cut it. There's no magic wand that's going to solve this problem. It's about time the government got the sleeves rolled up and stuck into it.
The only way to tackle this is to look at the reasons why these people are turning to heroin. It's not like it randomly afflicts all sections of society. It's related to social status and localised in certain areas of the country.
Education and support for the kids growing up in the area is the only way it'll be properly tackled. This doesn't mean sending in the police for a chat once in a lifetime, it means more involvement, more sports, bigger and better community projects in these areas. If I had to hang about street corners all night and no one cared if I went to school or not, drugs would probably seem like a logic option.
Lets just think of creative solutions to the problem rather than hold our hands up and say we can either cut off their heads or give them loads of drugs....
This article gives some more ideas...http://platosway.blogspot.com/2006/11/muggers-do-it-for-k...Report as unsuitable
16. Steve56, Stonehaven / 9:27am 20 Dec 2006
500 post yesterday on a footballer crossing himself and 14 on this today, an issue that so big that our whole society is rocking as a result. Good to see we have our priorities right.
Crime is soaring, an ever increasing percentage of our population are going around out of their heads on one substance or another and our politicians are scared to talk about the big issues around the subject for fear of being called "soft on drugs" by opponents or newspapers.
The increased Methadone use and increased drug related crime are related to one thing and one thing only. Increased hard drug use.
I'm afraid I can't accept anything that Zenith, No 4, says. There may be a small number of people that have diagnosed themselves as having a chemical imballance in the brain and self proscribed heroin or crack. The vast majority have got there through peer group / local society learning, a life crisis or abuse of one description or another. The is a correlation between poverty and drug use.
There needs to be a serious think about all drug policy and controlled legalisation should be openly and fully debated. There should be real and proper support available for those that want to get their lives on track and regain their independence. There are great services available, in Aberdeen we have The Foyer, but nothing like enough of them to start repelling the nightmare that we are strolling into.Report as unsuitable
17. Krusty The Clown, springfield / 9:28am 20 Dec 2006
i'm all in favour of free drugs for the junkies - just as long as they add a wee bit of thalium for that extra kick...Report as unsuitable
18. Dave From Barra, Western Isles / 9:38am 20 Dec 2006
The methedone looks like creme de menth. Maybe they should start subsituting the methedone for creme de menth. Hmmm minty!Report as unsuitable
19. Noel, Glasgow / 9:45am 20 Dec 2006
As one who was at the sharp end in the "war" against drugs. (I was in charge of the Drugs Squad) it is sometime amusing to read the comments here. However, most of them seem to come from people who are misinformed, or are addicts themselves. Never having taken illicit drugs, I relied on people who had done it for years and successfully stopped. I was told on more than one occasion that the s0-called "cold turkey" symptoms were no worse than a bad cold. Moreover, the supporters of the methadone programme should know that methadone users take their daily fix then go to their dealer looking for heroin. Health board members who support issuing "clean needles" to stop infection, should know that if say 8 drug addicts each receive a clean needle on a daily basis, they will then meet in a flat or house, 7 clean needles will be put in a drawer and the remaining one shared by the eight. If needles are withdrawn from the community, heroing addicts will still use heroin, but it will be smoked rather than injected and there is no risk of infection. What is the solution to this problem? I do not know, but there should be no possibility of addicts getting drugs in prisons. Maybe we need to look there to see how that is happening and stop it. Then when they have served their sentence at least they will be drugs free.Report as unsuitable
20. Big B, Stirling / 9:48am 20 Dec 2006
I was on methadone for around ten years and it realy helped me to get my life back on track.Most people are being unrealistic about addiction it can't be turned on and off like a tap it will take the majority of people up to five years to repair their life.I have been drug free for six years now, i Have worked in the addiction field now for five years but this most likely would have not been possible if it was not for methadone as this saved me from commiting any crime, being charged or sent to jail.Report as unsuitable
21. radical pink, fife / 9:49am 20 Dec 2006
It makes me proud to be Scottish when I see intelligent debate and compassionate arugument two things we all agree is that addicts need help and they're not getting the right help. Methadone and current rehab programmes are to a greater extent failing addicts. The result of failure impacts on the whole of society in particular associated crime rises as does the incidence of premature death from Methadone and not Heroin. I see little point in slagging off the weakness of any addict they're proof of a living hell and I'm grateful for not joining their ranks, especially when surrounded by so much temptation and misery. It's a case of there but for the grace of God etc. being smug and subjective solves damn all. Addicts are real people with real problems they need help and should if the government had any common sense make heroin a legally prescriptive drug. This would get rid of a majority of drug barons and criminals overnight. lods overnight. unequivocally the government enjoys the fringe benefits of the black economy, shouting loudly about illegality whilst holding it's hand out for the profits of death. One more thing as a parent, I could not stand back and let my child die the slow cruel death of addiction, nor allow them to prostitute their troubled minds and sick bodies to pay for drugs that take the pain of their illness away. I'd rather go to prison for supplying than let my child be further abused by a cruel controlling system that lacks common sense and compassion for the vulnerable.Report as unsuitable
22. Lesley, Edinburgh / 9:53am 20 Dec 2006
Methodone alone is useless. What is really needed is active councilling to back it up. It's too easy for GPs to just prescribe methodone and wash their hands of the problem. Addicts who truely wish to quit the habit need the human touch as well - and in the Edinburgh area that is close to impossible to get.Report as unsuitable
23. Steve56, Stonehaven / 9:58am 20 Dec 2006
I you really were in charge of the Drugs squad Noel, No 19, God help us. No wonder we are in this mess.
Almost all of your comments are stereotypes and drivel.
I'll jusdt deal with the last bit about prisons as the rest is too silly, but there are no drug free prisons in Scotland, England, Europe or the USA. So dream on. If you then tip drug users out of prison with no support,as is the norm, back into the drug ridden society whence they came.. guess what happens!Report as unsuitable
24. Joanna, Cambs / 10:36am 20 Dec 2006
I agree with 'radical pink' @ 21.
Is there a case for 'medicalising' the use of drugs? If addicts were prescribed heroin in a clinic and supervised in the taking of it. Would this get rid of much of the crime committed by addicts and destroy the trade of the dealers and drug barons who are making millions out of the misery of others and are a scourge to society?
Its time that the government and society in general woke up to the grim reality of drugs .... the system as it is at present does not work. Maybe its time to take this radical step.Report as unsuitable
25. bob thornley, somewhere over the rainbow / 10:40am 20 Dec 2006
The 3% figure quoted by McKeagany is entierly wrong. He continually misrepresents his own research data for political ends and takes no responsibility for this. The actual figure is closer to 13% are no longer using illegal drugs two years after staring a prescription. There are many reasons for the failure of treatment services one of which is sub-therapeutic dosing. The majority of users on methadone are not getting enough to supress cravings, hence they use on top. A minimum dose of 60mg per day is required to supress cravings for the majority of users. Most users are getting less than this, which I think is the main reason treatment is failing to be effective. McKeagany has yet to acknowledge this fact when presenting his research findings. I'm pretty convinced he's a fascist or neocon. He's also really good at not answering a straight question.Report as unsuitable
26. eric / 10:45am 20 Dec 2006
I found the police more of a hinderance,Todays Police are no better than the uneducated Neds.my brother who was trying to get off Methadone etc ,Was walking along street with his daughter in Pram,They threw him in back of car and left the Kid in the Pram on The street and drove off,But thats common place In Glasgow,And didnt surprise me at all,Then These Drugs just happen to appear in my brothers pocket out of Thin air.Id hate to rely on that job for a living,Report as unsuitable
27. BonnyBird / 11:17am 20 Dec 2006
Methodone does not work and I know this for a fact. People close to me have been on this shit for years and are still sourcing drugs.
Stop giving methadone now.
Start cold turkey now. I have seen this first hand and it's not nice but they come through the other side.
Scotland is too small a country to keep on financially supporting any and every addiction, bad habit, illness, problem child, problem adult and other issues that involved people who will not help themselves. They just throw up their hands and expect others to fix things out.
We cannot affoard this if we want to be Independant. We will have to be a lot tougher. Many people are sick listening to the crap that SOCIETY has to take the blame.
THIS IS NOT MY FAULT ........... AND THAT'S THE END OF IT.
We have to get tough life is tough, yes we have to support people but this cannot be endless. There has to be definite deadlines and goals set for the end of dependance and the beginning of self support and getting on with life.Report as unsuitable
28. Lesley, Edinburgh / 11:18am 20 Dec 2006
Hi Eric - I really feel for your brother's predicament. Re my earlier point about councilling and access to rehab - has he been able to access anything like this in the Glasgow area? Point being, we can't expect these addicts to cure themselves on their own - they need expert help and advice - not methodone down their necks!Report as unsuitable
29. eric / 11:32am 20 Dec 2006
28 Lesley Thanks ,There is Some form of help But the waiting list is Years,yes that wasnt the last time Police did that ,They are only doing a job and have to drum up trade,I would love him to get off it because My mum who more or less brought the kid up since she was a baby at 67yrs old only died last year,My brother is getting by ,But he does struggle and couldnt do it without help from myself and his sister,Now would be a good time for him to get help ,But it just isnt readily at hand ,He wants to get help ,thanks for your kind words,Report as unsuitable
30. Billy, Germany / 11:56am 20 Dec 2006
Eric, has your brother tried the cold turkey method.
If not, why not. If he did , what effect did it have.
Why not move away from the area, where drugs are obviousley available. He has a child to think of.Report as unsuitable
31. YabbaDabbaDoo, Edinburgh / 11:57am 20 Dec 2006
Eric #26 So the police drove off with your brother and left his baby in a pram on the street? P1sh. BTW, the police do a very dififcult job in dealign with the dregs of society. You and your like may not like them because they view you as anti social. Get with the program man - learn about society, learn about why contributing is important, you can have as much free education as you want.Report as unsuitable
32. eric / 12:06pm 20 Dec 2006
30 Billy ,No he hasnt tried it yet ,he is at the end of his rope ,I think he needs to.The rest of our family are all Hard working people who have worked all our lives,As did my brother ,He is NOT a bad person like 31 would have you believe,And Yes the Police did leave the baby on the Street ,Why would i lie about something as serious as that ,And as for The Dregs comment 31 Middle class and wealthier people Who do Drugs as recreational Must be Dregs too then ,Police do drugs as well ,There is No part of society Free from drugs,So your comments 31 are meaningless ,Report as unsuitable
33. IanW, Germany / 12:11pm 20 Dec 2006
The taking of proscribed drugs is illegal. Solve the problem by locking up the dealers and the junkies. let them go "cold-turkey" they brought it on themselves.
The recent compensation case was afarce. It is illegal for them to take drugs so society should not support their addictions.
If we have to build more prisons, we need to sort out society now.Report as unsuitable
34. eric / 12:15pm 20 Dec 2006
33 I agree.Report as unsuitable
35. Peter 100 / 12:24pm 20 Dec 2006
Question, why is it ok for someone to be an alcoholic but not not a drug addict, they are both the same in that the person has an addiction to a particular vice.We allow ourselves to be dragged into the media hype about herion addiction, these people don't waken up one day and decide to be a herion addict and they need help which is not easy to get inthis country.As for the so-called police officer Noel, that is typical of the attitude of many people, never mind their new black shirts really fit in with their mentality, remind who wore black shirts during the 2nd world warReport as unsuitable
36. Steve56, Stonehaven / 12:30pm 20 Dec 2006
31 and 33
God knows what worlds you live in. Our prisons are full of drug users thanks to the "Head of the Drugs Squad" above. Result? More crime and more drug users. Your strategy has been tried and failed. We need to deal with the fact that we consign 20% ish of our society to the human waste heap and have no meaningful policy on what to do about drugs. Eric's brother needs help and our help is to lock him up. What do you think will become of the child in 10 years time. Help and support is the only way and that needs money.
There is good help there but in pitiful amounts compared to the scale of the problem.
Drugs are a bigger threat to our society that terrorism, we just aren't allowed to say so.Report as unsuitable
37. Dave From Barra, Western Isles / 12:59pm 20 Dec 2006
So we shouldn't lock up dealers and pushers then Steve56 as IanW suggested?
Yes he also suggested drug users too but instead of locking them up in prison, maybe they can be removed from the streets and "asked to stay long term or until such time as they are considered drug free" in some other establishment at her Majesty's pleasure? Such as a priory type establishment.Report as unsuitable
38. melissa, United States / 2:02pm 20 Dec 2006
Methadone is a worldwide problem.
In the U.S. current statistics show that nearly 3000 people a year die from methadone. These deaths are mostly happening to pain management patients within the first 10 days of taking initial dose. Most of these deaths are related to methadone prescribed with other medications that react as additives with methadone. Diversion of methadone is a serious problem because it lands this most deadly drug on streets. Statistics also state that methadone is contributing to more deaths nationwide then heroine and cocaine.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/472711451
On June 24th 2006 I lost my fiancé (Ron) to this deadly drug prescribed by a physician with a combination of other medications that acted as additives to the Methadone. He had knee surgery and became addicted to the percocet he was prescribed. He checked himself into Greenleaf in Valdosta, GA for detoxification. Upon entering the facility he was drug tested and did not come up positive for opiates (he had stopped taking the percocet 4 days before entering the facility). On the fourth day in detox he died sometime between 2am and 1pm in the afternoon (he was never checked on in all of those hours). The night before he died he was complaining of migraines and vomiting, apparently the staff thought he was still experiencing withdrawals and was not concerned about these symptoms. The symptoms of methadone toxicity mimic withdrawal symptoms physicians and staff must be very cognizant of the complex properties and metabolization of methadone. There were many errors made in my fiancé’s death including the fact that he was given numerous amounts of additive medications such as benzodiazepines. He had only been taking percocet for about 4 months and according to the DSM IV he wouldn’t be an appropriate candidate methadone maintenance treatment. It doesn't matter specific reasons for taking methadone but what does matter is that this medication is deadly and physicians need to more prudent in prescribing it as well as monitoring their patients while beginning treatment of any kind using Methadone.
Also, addicts have been dying all along from methadone since it was first introduced but that is not widely publicized because they are addicts and the government doesn't mind those causalities especially when the liquid handcuffs are working in reducing crime and diseases. Now that it's killing "innocent" pain patients the deaths are being tracked and recorded. Most people after several years on methadone try being released from their prison and attempt to get off methadone and try to become toxic and realize just how addicted they were and how it has altered their personality, rotted their teeth, and damaged their liver.
I don't want to see anyone die especially Report as unsuitable
39. melissa, United States / 2:03pm 20 Dec 2006
I don't want to see anyone die especially addicts who are the ones that are being "pimped" by the government and pharmaceutical companies. Instead of being an argument this should be a discussion on what is best for all. No one person's life is of greater importance then another’s, all life is sacred and "accidents" like this shouldn't be happening and it is not an isolated incident.
Remember my fiancée sought methadone treatment, he hated methadone and hated the way people acted on it and as an addict himself he has been around MANY people on methadone. I think he was in a lot of pain and addicted to the percocet and figured this was his best chance and hell it's easier then to actually work at recovery so he chose the easy way out and yes I always warned him against methadone (other MD's had suggested it to him) and I hate that I was right in this situation. But he went into with the same beliefs you have that if used correctly under doctor supervision it's safe, and he's not here right now to tell you it's not safe even used correctly. He also thought he was going to get his life back from methadone but instead it took his life. Why when you get your life together it's the methadone you credit and not your own strengths, perseverance, hard work, and dedication but when someone dies and cause is listed primary as "acute methadone intoxication" we shouldn't blame the drug?
MelissaReport as unsuitable
40. zenith / 2:14pm 20 Dec 2006
You people in Scotland who say methadone does not work, and who say that MMT patients take their methadone and then go buy heroin, let me tell you something. If you gave someone suffering from an infection a tiny tiny dose of penicillin, far below what the medical literature said was the minimum effective dose, and then the person did not get well--would you blame the penicillin? Of course not! But that is exactly what you are doing with methadone! Your country is known far and wide in treatment circles as one that radically UNDERdoses patients, so that they are suffering from severe withdrawals just a few hours after dosing. OF COURSE they are looking for something to ease their suffering. And if they were properly medicated they would not only NOT be craving drugs, but they would be unable to feel the effects of any opioid drug they might take. But this requires a minimum dose of 80-120mg and in your country, 30-40mg is the norm. It ought to occur to you to wonder why MMT is so successful in other countries but not in yours? In the USA, the vast majority of clinics are private, with the patients paying anywhere from 60-200 dollars a week for treatment and having to prove they have the legitimate income to pay for it, as well. They arrive at the clinic very early as they are hurrying off to work--to the jobs that MMT has allowed them to have, that they could never hold before.
Addiction is NOT a "choice" in most circumstances. It is a biochemical brain disorder, a condition called Endorphin Deficiency Syndrome. Many opiate addicts are BORN with this condition, and must face a life of complete inability to derive pleasure from anything, severe depression, pain, etc without opiate supplementation. Opiates are naturally occurring substances in everyone's bodies, and in that sense, we are ALL "opiate addicts" in that we rely on these substances to keep us feeling normal levels of happiness and contentment, and without them, life is miserable indeed. A diabetic is similar because their pancreas does not produce enough insulin and so they must supplement, just as the addict's brain does not produce sufficient endorphins so they must supplement, and MMT is a much better way to do that than street drugs.
I just watched a documentary on HBO last night about traditional rehabs. Every single person they followed in the show relapsed, most instantly upon discharge. They claimed a success rate of less than 8%. Methadone, in our country, has a success rate of about 65%--and that is not measured by how many are OFF methadone in 3 years time, but by how many are restored to a useful, productive life and who do not continue to abuse illicit drugs. Those are the stats you should be looking at. Adequate dosing is the problem in yoour country.Report as unsuitable
41. Dave From Barra, Western Isles / 2:22pm 20 Dec 2006
So we have Melissa at 38 and 39 stating that her fiance died of methadone poisoning and we have Zenith at 40 stating that we in the UK underprescribe methadone and they prescribe bigger measures in the USA.
Hmmm, we have found cause and effect for Melissa then.
Incidentally, my wife, a nurse, used to dish out the methadone and supervise while they swallowed it. She has stated that quite often as soon as the person has left whatever establishment, they regurgitate the methadone and sell it on for heroin.Report as unsuitable
42. weeshooie, Livingston / 2:33pm 20 Dec 2006
According to the elite executive it is NOT a failure, they just have to direct their actions in another direction. Great eh?we screw up for 10 years in the private sector we get sacked. an executive officer screws up and all she has to do is put some spin on it and we will forgive her, give her a rise and increase her pension.
Roll on MayReport as unsuitable
43. Steve56, Stonehaven / 3:03pm 20 Dec 2006
Zenith
Don't think you are living in our world. The vast majority of people being given methadone here are very poor people with chaotic lives who have sunck into drug dependency because of the culture and pressures around them. Unless screwed up brain chemistry comes with a direct correlation to income and deprevation you are barking up the wrong tree.
The fact is that in the USA you reach for drugs as the first cure to many things when we don't (e.g. kids with learning disability, fragile-x, autism etc).
My personal view is that the large pharmecutical companies have some much power in the US that you are massively over dependent on them and that the application of them in many cases, such as kids with learning difficulties, is both cruel and lazy. It prevents them maximising their lives.
DAVE FROM BARRA
A misunderstanding. I would lock the dealers up as it stands now. Not the users though, unless they have comitted another crime that warrants it.
Personally I think we need to move to "State Dealers" so that at the very least we cut out the 42,000 criminal offences a year. (short point in complicated arguement I admit).Report as unsuitable
44. Dave From Barra, Western Isles / 3:16pm 20 Dec 2006
Fair enough Steve56.
However, I never understood the legalisation of addictive substances. We have state dealers in those already called tobacconists and off licenses and it appears that it's also causing a lot of societies ills.
How would making heroin a state controlled objective help?Report as unsuitable
45. duke shizzler, scotland / 3:33pm 20 Dec 2006
You know it must be a horrible life being an addict! Constantly thinking about where they will get their next fix from, what a way to live.Whilst appreciating that sometimes circumstances for some people in this country (particularly those at the bottom of the social ladder) can create a situation where becoming an addict is all too easy, I still have little sympathy for those who become addicts, and think that the standard recovery procedure should be cold turkey with recovery support provided afterwards.Locking up dealers won't help since new dealers will take their place.Looking at the bigger picture the problem is with modern day society which...TBC!Report as unsuitable
46. Rulesbutnotrulers, East Lothian / 3:53pm 20 Dec 2006
#44 Supplying drugs to addicts via self-financing NHS clinics would help by cutting out the criminals. That will help prevent new addcits whilst giving us the chance to work out how best do wean off existing addicts. No doubt cold turkey for some, love and care for others. Meantime we can all walk the streets with less fear of being mugged for drug money.Report as unsuitable
47. melissa, United States / 4:04pm 20 Dec 2006
Steve 43
I agree with you, here in the U.S. we depend on meds for EVERYTHING. Nobody's lifes are perfect and we can't be happy all the time...many people suffer from depression but medications aren't always warrented. People need to learn coping skills which is in many cases can help them long term instead of popping a pill. Endorphins affect many things in our brains and we can build endorphins with many natural activites none of which also produce opioids. Depression is caused mainly by a disruption of dopamine and seratonin and many other neurochemicals also play a role such as GABA and epinephrine. Cocaine addicts also experience depression after stopping to use, I think it's a natural occurance in our brains while the brains relearns how to produce these neurochemicals again after not having to work for so long because the addict is using substances to artificially experience pleasure and produce neurochemicals at un-natural levels. Using Zenith's reasoning we should make a "legal" alternative for all street drugs to "cure" people of the depression after stopping illegal drugs. I have heard many excuses for people using methadone from depression, pain, migraines, back aches, withdrawal, come down from stimulants such as crystal meth and crack, sub for heroin, to get high with benzo and methadone, to "feel normal" and just about any other reason under the sun to rationalize their use. In reality it's just another addiction another drug that is just as lethal if not more, and just another way for drug companies to make money and for the government to put "liquid handcuffs" on people.
melissaReport as unsuitable
48. Steve56, Stonehaven / 5:37pm 20 Dec 2006
Dave from Barra
I don't know that we would make great progress immediatly but at least you would get the problem out in the open and then, like tobacco and alchohol, you can make a stab at it. At least people aren't being shot or mugged, or homes burgled to fund alcohol or ciggy habits.
Cars cause more mayhem in many senses than anything else, but we don't ban them. I don't think we should ban things JUST because they are bad for you. If we did there wouldn't be much left.
If we can stop the associated crime and have people free to ask for help without being "knicked" for having drugs on them, it will at least be a start.
Not pretending it's easy, nor that I am necessarily right. But at the moment the politicians and police have us on a road to hell.
Melissa No 47
I agree. And I'm not saying never medicate. We have a son with learning difficulties and in the worst times we have been tempted, believe me. But I'm glad we didn't.
Anyway it's 5.30 here and my teams Xmas night out awaits, which will obviously involve health food and fruit juice.....
So I'm signing off, but thanks for the debate. Have a good Xmas and drug free new year.Report as unsuitable
49. james 36, United States / 7:14pm 20 Dec 2006
Has anyone known anyone trying to quit taking methadone? The withdrawals and dependency ofit is the same, if not worse than trying to get offof heroin or painkillers. Methadone is not an answeror solution to the problem, yet enabling it.Report as unsuitable
50. fatboyslim, where the enviroment and right might mix / 8:11pm 20 Dec 2006
the worlds population is far too big the environmental movement has choosen to ignore that fact which more and more people are born into poverty and dispair all the efforts to solve the world poverty fail if population numbers are not reduce. lets make a start here and encourage herion addicts or crack addicts not to have children that will highly likely end up in poverty and on benefits. we need to envirnoment movement not just shy away from one of the biggest enviroment problems facing the world its already over population.Report as unsuitable
51. Scullion, Canada / 9:43pm 20 Dec 2006
#40 ZenithInteresting notion about the Endorphine Deficiency Syndrome. Do you have any references to scientific papers or abstracts that support the idea?Report as unsuitable
52. John1, NZ / 10:20pm 20 Dec 2006
It makes a change to have a sensible debate on a Scotsman report. For once, everyone sems to be taking it seriously and not trying to divert into unrelated issues.I agree this is THE major issue for our times. I do not understand how society got into this mess, given the publicity that the effects of drugs get. However, what do we do about it?It seems to me that every viewpoint given here has something to recommend it, but the aim should be to prevent drug addiction arising rather than just cope with the results. Not enough attention is given to this by the powers that be. Coordinated research by an international group would remove the financial, political, self-interest and other obstacles to tackling the problem. Where are the wealthy philanthropists of yesteryear? Have their funds all been appropriated by politicians with elections to worry about and political donors to not upset? I hesitate to suggest the United Nations as a body to control research and propose action but if no genuinely independent sources of funds and organisation are available there could be no alternative. The aim should be to find the root(s) of the problem(s) and come up with practical means to tackle them, undeterred by special interests. Any volunteers?Report as unsuitable
53. Digory, Narnia / 10:30pm 20 Dec 2006
Zenith, Why, do you think, the US Government has spent so much money rehabilitating veterans who became drug dependent in the course of their war service?Report as unsuitable
54. HUGH JAMPTON / 10:59pm 20 Dec 2006
Governments should bite the bullet and execute without any appeals All illegal drug pedlers, then possibly our streets and personal property will be safe again. There can be NO ARGUMENT against a law like this when you take into account the misery and degradation these parasites inflict on people.Report as unsuitable
55. Rokki, Santa Cruz,Calif / 11:06pm 20 Dec 2006
Zenith explained it perfectly! Methadone has over 40 years of scientific data showing that it works. Tell you folks what...I'll show you mine if you show me Your Facts,not some tail of woe,But FACTS that methadone doesn't work.
Anyone got the Naga's for it? Lets start with www.methadone.org www.atforum.com www.samhsa.gov www.capqualitycare.com www.jtpaye.com
Lets have those websites with facts now..Ok?
Thanks Zenith..:) You Rock
RokkiReport as unsuitable
56. Scullion, Canada / 1:12am 21 Dec 2006
#55 RokkiI looked up the websites you listed. Some I couldn't get into, one (www.atforumcom) is actually funded by the methadone manufacturer Tyco/Healthcare/Mallindkrodt) and one www.capqualitycare.com compared an addict using methadone to a diabetic using insulin-that is not going to win many friends.However, the above notwithstanding, I did find a site that has many unbiased medical and university studies that highly recommend methadone treatment-www.drugwarfacts.org/methadon.htmMany of the scientific studies mention that opiate addiction is often for life.Report as unsuitable
57. zenith / 1:49am 21 Dec 2006
Scallion, here's one article to start with that has numerous references to other sources about endorphin deficiency syndrome at the ned of it:
http://www.prohibitionkills.blogspot.com/
Here's another:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:F9WJHKptoMEJ:www.bi-v...
You can start with those.
And for whoever said that we should stop trying to treat this with medication, I am NOT talking about just having a bit of the "blues" now and then. I am talking aboout a crippling depression that leaves a person almost unable to function, and completely unable to enjoy, or look forward to, anything in life. This type of problem is very serious and incapacitating and in most cases does need chemical treatment. Why do you think so many opiate addicts, after becoming free of their drugs and free of withdrawals, end up returning to the substance that has caused the ruination of their lives? They go back to it in spite of having lost their careers, their families, their looks, their freedom, etc etc. Do you think it's just an idle desire to "party"? NO! It is because the abject MISERY of a life with such catastrophically disordered brain chemistry is so appalling they cannot bear it one minute more. For myself, I tried Prozac, Paxil, effexor, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Celexa, Elavil, Trazadone--antidepressants all. I even tried Xanax and Klonopin--Rx anti anxiety meds, which are very addicting, but they did nothing for me and held absolutely NO appeal. I spent countless years in therapy with shrinks and counselors of various stripes. Nothing worked. My life was a living nightmare. Now, after 2 years on MMT, I feel great, I work full time, I am responsible, I volunteer my time to help others, I am healthy and happy and I finally feel normal and am able to focus on my goals in life and what I want to achieve. In spite of this, all of you would have me return to my life of misery simply so I can say I don't take any medication???? I have TRIED and TRIED, and I was always so baffled as to why traditional methods did not work for me and for so many many others. I was always told it was my fault--I didn't pray hard enough, forgot to confess some "sin" in step 5, didn't "want it bad enough" (!!!), etc.
Sure, not all diseases need medication--but some DO, and this is one that often does. And yes, it IS very similar to daibetes. In fact, for whoever said diabetics don't bring their disease on themselves, in some cases, yes they DO--by overeating sweets for many years. Does that mean we don't treat them?Report as unsuitable
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The Scotsman.com Online Daily Newspaper: Cold turkey plan for Scots addicts: By EDDIE BARNES Political Editor:

2006-12-17T20:12:00.001-04:00

Drug users will be urged to ditch methadone and other softly-softly approaches in favour of "cold turkey" at addiction treatment centres, under the party's Holyrood election plans. Picture: Sean Bell.

THE biggest shake-up of drugs policy for 20 years is to be pushed through by Labour in a bid to get Scotland's 50,000 addicts off heroin and other deadly substances.
Drug users will be urged to ditch methadone and other softly-softly approaches in favour of "cold turkey" at addiction treatment centres, under the party's Holyrood election plans.
Party chiefs are increasingly frustrated with "so-called experts" in the health service who continue to advocate that harm reduction - managing addicts' drug use - is the answer.
In a dramatic policy U-turn, senior Labour figures are convinced addicts should be pressured to get themselves clean, and out of the cycle of drug abuse and crime that blights countless lives.
Drugs policy throughout the UK is under unprecedented scrutiny following the murders of five prostitutes in Ipswich, all of whom were working the streets to feed their habits.
Scottish ministers will shortly unveil a manifesto pledge to crack down on the drugs crisis should they be returned to power following May's Holyrood election. The planned measures include:
• Removing addicts from their own communities where temptation is too strong, in order to attend abstinence courses in other areas. A pilot programme about to begin in Edinburgh will be rolled out across the country, if it is shown to produce results;
• A crackdown on health boards which, Labour chiefs claim, are currently forcing addicts to wait for months before they attending a rehabilitation course by leaving beds unfilled;
• A change in the law allowing routine searching of prison visitors to prevent drugs from being smuggled inside;
• Getting ex-addicts into schools to 'scare' pupils about the reality of hard drug addiction.
Critics within the addiction services last night claimed the moves could be counter-productive and might force thousands of addicts underground.
But the plan's supporters insisted tough measures had to be taken if Scotland was ever to turn around the drug menace.
Scotland has been rocked by a series of shocking cases involving drug use, including the death of a two-year-old boy who had drunk the methadone prescribed for his drug addict mother.
And the moves are strongly supported by one of Scotland's leading drug experts, Professor Neil McKeganey.
This week he is calling for an end to the 20-year-old policy of harm reduction, which sees services hand out methadone and needles to addicts in the hope of stabilising their lives and preventing infection.
In a recent report, he found that, three years after going on a methadone course, only 3% of addicts remained totally drug-free.
McKeganey told Scotland on Sunday: "I think it is right that we have a clearer direction of policy which is toughening the approach."
McKeganey met First Minister Jack McConnell in the wake of the report, and Labour ministers have now appeared to change tack in line with his findings. While methadone services will continue, senior Labour sources say that the focus will be on getting all addicts off drugs.
One senior Labour figure said: "Our view is that there is a place for methadone but it should not be about people being parked on it and then left for years. There has to be an aim of getting them drug-free. Yes, we will help them but they have got a responsibility. People have just thought up till now that they have a right to methadone and that's it."
The insider added: "We feel very strongly that this agenda has been run by a fairly narrow range of people and not enough attention is being paid to people and their families. It is time to shift the balance away from them".
Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson is understood to be furious over the lengthy wait addicts are being forced to endure in order to get into rehabilitation, and is now pressing Health Minister Andy Kerr to put pressure on health boards.
Jamieson is also said to be in favour of ex-addicts being sent into schools: a tactic first employed in the 1980s which is strongly opposed by addiction services, who said scaring children did not work.
Scots Tory leader Annabel Goldie - who has long pressed for a stronger focus on drug prevention - said: "The biggest thing we have been calling for is a sea change in the attitude of the government. If, at long last, Labour is waking up then that has got to be welcomed, but it should not need an election for it to happen. It needs to happen now."
But David Liddell, director of the Scottish Drugs Forum, said: "The risk with abstinence is that if people are without proper support and are pushed too quickly you get a revolving door where they are off drugs for a while before going back on. We need more light than heat and unfortunately in the run up to an election, you get more heat."
One plans to introduce ex-addicts into schools, he added: "These were felt to be inappropriate because they employed shock horror tactics and all the evidence is that these tactics don't work and can lead to an increase in drug use."
Related topics
Drugs policyhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=220
Heroinhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1872172006
Last updated: 17-Dec-06 00:38 GMT
Comments Add your comment
1. druidh / 1:31am 17 Dec 2006
Great idea - let's start with those already in Her Majestys institutions.Report as unsuitable
2. Ricky / 1:39am 17 Dec 2006
50,000 addicts and a population of 5m - I’d rather take drugs than listen to the policies of labour - its obvious!
More labour tosh! Piss up in a brewery comes to mind!Report as unsuitable
3. scottwebb.co.uk / 1:51am 17 Dec 2006
It has always amazed me when we have 600(reported ) SAS down in Hereford of the finest in the world......yet no one can SEEM to stop the drug gangsters.........i mean lets be honest does this not constitute a clear and present danger ?Report as unsuitable
4. Guga, Rockall / 2:11am 17 Dec 2006
At last the numpties are beginning to wake up to the problem. How much taxpayers money is being wasted on the Methadone programme? Cold turkey is the way to go.
As for prisons, keep the visitors and prisoners totally separate by having glass between them. Then, if drugs are still getting into the prisons, sort out the prison officers.
Ignore the trendies and the social workers, they haven't got it right yet, and never will.Report as unsuitable
5. Richard, West Lothian / 2:22am 17 Dec 2006
Heroin users don't have to go cold turkey and they don't have to have methadone either.
The Spanish use an injection of (can't remember the name) some agent that attacks the heroin in the body by attracting the heroin molecules in the bloodstream and killing them. Thus removing the physical addiction within 24 hours & so no cold turkey.
The psychological addiction is therefore made that much more easy to beat, knowing the process of C.T. Hasn't to be faced.
Why can't this method be used instead, it altogether seems, a much better, more humane and effective way of tackling the problem?Report as unsuitable
6. Guga, Rockall / 2:46am 17 Dec 2006
#5 You're right, there is a drug for that. the emergency ambulance crews use it to give to heroin users that have overdosed. It is called can something, or something can; I can't really remember.Report as unsuitable
7. Whistle Berries, Marysville, WA, USA / 3:30am 17 Dec 2006
Medical and psychiatric research learned about the connectivity of mental health issues and substance abuse many years ago. It is called "self-medication."
The 'addicts' and/or alcoholics, need psychiatric intervention to find the underlying cause as to why people ‘need’ to “self-medicate.”
Providing other substances, or, requiring the person to quit drinking or drugging by the "cold turkey" method, does not solve the subconscious psychiatric or psychological problems that are causing or driving the person to self-medicate.
As soon as "treatment providers" and, elected authorities realize what is necessary for a comprehensive treatment program, maybe the substance abusers will have a better chance at full recovery; and, become a productive member of society.
While some people believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that is not true. Alcoholism is an addiction.
All addictive issues point to self-medicating, and those issues need the proper medical (psychiatric and psychological) intervention, for a better chance of treatment success.Report as unsuitable
8. KATIE MAC NAUGHTON, EDINBURGH / 3:43am 17 Dec 2006
they will just find other ways to get high, they have addictive personallitys, I dont mean all of them but at least 30% do.Report as unsuitable
9. bigkev, china / 4:30am 17 Dec 2006
won't work......... just sounds nice, create a few highly paid jobs for someone and his friends
you only become an addict after trying the stuff...... if we are going to be serious with drugs we have to get very very hard with dealers.... but that is too much to expect from the british gov.
life i.e. 30 years no parole for anyone caught with more than reasonable quantities beyond that of self use - 5 years for anyone caught with class 1 any quantityReport as unsuitable
10. Richard, West Lothian / 5:04am 17 Dec 2006
Bigkev,30 years no parole for anyone caught with more than reasonable quantities beyond that of self use........of what exactly?Report as unsuitable
11. Vambo, Vibrainia / 6:30am 17 Dec 2006
6, Narcan. It is used to try and reverse an overdose nothing more.Report as unsuitable
12. Paul Voltaire, www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com / 6:34am 17 Dec 2006
I am sorry but I will have enough cold turkey over the holiday season.Hot duck sounds much better.Report as unsuitable
13. Andrew the Expat, Glasgow / 7:27am 17 Dec 2006
Drug addiction should be medicalised, not criminalised. Addicts get their heroin or whatever free on the NHS. This gives 3 advantages:
a) Regular dose of high-quality stuff avoids death through overdosing, infections, etc and allows the addicts to live (relatively) normal lives, like diabetics who need daily injections.
b) It removes the cause for a huge amount of theft, prostitution, etc. and puts drug pushers out of business
c) Without drug pushers, the number of new addicts each year will steadily fall.
Any politician brave enough to support this idea?Report as unsuitable
14. Perkins, Loch Lomond / 7:48am 17 Dec 2006
I agree with Katie #8
This is a personality problem.For many addicts if it wasn't one thing it would be another, the other users are a bit like sheep in that they will follow the leader or go with the flow. Why you would embark on the use of a drug that will ruin any finances you ever had, do serious damage to your health and make you loose all control of any of your body functions is a puzzle to many of us .....I think they like to be dependant on something .... anything !!, just so they can feel they are victims.You do this one of two ways, you stamp on it hard or you make the use of heroin, as a user, legal. The very worst part of the drug culture is the culture itself, it's full of the most unsavoury pieces of humanity who generate subcultures of theft, prostitution, violence. If you can get the addicts away from that hell hole they stand some sort of a chance in getting their lives back on track.Imagine it from the point of view of the young girl who doesn't have to go into a car with someone she doesn't know to perform some sort of sex act to earn the money to buy the drug. Take that problem away, the streets become safer, petty theft and shoplifting numbers drop ... and the young girl won't have that used, dirty feeling that only goes away when she takes more of the drug.Not an easy one to fix ..... and getting harder since we have allowed the eastern block Europeans to dump the worst of their populations on our welfare state.Report as unsuitable
15. F.R.E.E. Mason, Brisbane,Australia. / 8:24am 17 Dec 2006
Expert my buttocks!If you think a group of middle-aged,middle-class Sainsbury shoppers are going to sort out this mess,-think again! The only true "experts" are the people who have fought and beaten their addiction! Lets listen to them! (with an interpreter of course)Report as unsuitable
16. LewisAdam, Leith, Edinburgh / 8:38am 17 Dec 2006
This seems to be the usual "get tough" message in the run up to an election. It is a shame that our ministers do not get tough with the addicts that are fiddling money one way or another from the Executive, taxi fares and housing costs spring to mind. Of course that will never happen.Report as unsuitable
17. Boswell / 8:45am 17 Dec 2006
[8] Katie:More sense said in one sentence than the whole of the article.
[13] Andrew: ...Without drug pushers, the number of new addicts each year will steadily fall.
A flimsy assertion at best. On which wealth of facts and verifiable research do you base this?The fact is that dealers only come into being to service a demand. No demand, no dealers. Given Katie's statement, which I wholeheartedly endorse, you will never have a situation of zero demand. Ergo, there will always be pushers.
It is facile to suggest that state controlled provision can circumvent this. Anyone with an addictive personality will consume until they drop, given half the chance. Unless state provided smack is given without limit, there will always be a demand for illicit supplies. hence there will always be dealers. You're living in some kind of fantasy world where everyone's needs and demands are met by the state. Get serious; the restriction of these maintenance programs and "drugs for life" is long overdue, and its past time that society not just demanded it but enforced it too.Report as unsuitable
18. killie bob, lancs / 9:02am 17 Dec 2006
Those who supply drugs to our children are beyond redemption. Scum etc you call it. We all know who the suppliers are in our individual communities - if we don't just go and ask someone. The solution as far as I am concerned is zero tolerance towards the dealers. Let them know that their presence is no longer required in our midst. Identify them and get rid of them - whatever method that takes.
I have often thought of how different terrorist groups exist for this cause and that cause. Maybe a better cause would be to focus their efforts on getting rid of the dealers. No human rights for people who will corrupt and hook our children into a world of drugs and deprevation while they roam the streets in their expensive cars.Report as unsuitable
19. Rudi, Mozambique / 9:08am 17 Dec 2006
#4 correct as for #5 being more humane bullshit it is self inflicted and the misery the place on others is beyond measure.Report as unsuitable
20. Bobby Henry, coatbridge / 9:11am 17 Dec 2006
Oops! - there goes your new HD Television - better check your house insurance because without the only stablising treatment for these people - they will have to get up every morning and find thirty pounds -over and over again -not to get high but just to function. I'm sorry to see them get this so drastically wrong and yes, there will be an unprecedented crime wave because you have just taken the last hope away from one of the lower levels of the communityReport as unsuitable
21. Rulesbutnotrulers, East Lothian / 9:20am 17 Dec 2006
13 is right. 17 is wrong.
Dealers create demand, not merely supply it. Very few babies are born lusting after heroin, etc. The long term solution is to get rid of dealers/pushers. This can be done by the NHS supplying drugs safely and below market prices. Once there is no drugs market the pushing will cease and future kids will be safe from that temptation. Short term solutions probably do include a sensible mixture of cold turkey as well as methadone if AA experience is valid. Our very popular local church minister was a drug addict, He is now instead drunk on Jesus. Seems a good way for an addictive personality to cope.Report as unsuitable
22. Alamo, Glasgow / 9:25am 17 Dec 2006
Anyone caught with drugs....10 years. No questions asked, and no parole or methadone. All animal drug testing to be abolished, and the drug testing that was previously carried out on animals to be carried out on these prisoners. Before being imprisoned, they seemed to like taking drugs so no problem there.
SortedReport as unsuitable
23. Isabel Ronan, Edinburgh / 9:26am 17 Dec 2006
I hope this is not yet another thought by a quango with a lot of money involved.We have been there before.Why are the Drugs Groups not put under an umberella where they can share resources and money. Education is the key put the pictures in show the sores from needle marks.Do it for smoking take a smokers lungs in.Put the message in firmly it will only stop if you can catch the children before they fall. Yes people will disagree but children have a Right to the true knowledge of what all the substances do.They do not learn if not told when you see them smoking and drinking then that is obvious! Prisoners too why is threrehabilitation so appalling.That would be one for another quango.Report as unsuitable
24. bigkev, china / 9:47am 17 Dec 2006
just because we are having difficulty stopping it (with our pissy soft methods) does not mean we bare our #rse and give in and allow drugs...do you want your colleagues at work high half the time, taxi drivers high, train drivers, your kids, the doctor, school kids
people can't function, forget friday night recreational BS, that's how it starts and next minute it's every day - habits evolve, yoo start will dope and end up a dope!
#10, crack, herion, lsd, medication which you can't be on - horse pills etc etc - is it not obvious?Report as unsuitable
25. Alix, Devon / 10:17am 17 Dec 2006
It is the suppliers that should be found and dealt with, as they are the ones who cause the misery for drug users. Also those who use drugs must have some underlying social Problem which should be addressed.Unfortunately we are now in about the third generation of drug taking. This has led to poor parenting and children following in their parents footsteps.Report as unsuitable
26. Citylocal Fife, Abreast of the News in Fife / 10:19am 17 Dec 2006
Surely the headline should read....
"THE biggest shake-up of drugs policy for 20 years is to be pushed through by Labour in a bid to get more votes!"
This is just another cunning 'pretendy' ploy from a 'pretendy' government. When placing your cross on the ballot paper next year, it would be well to remember those who have been right all along, and not those who, after ensuring that they have screwed up the economy, not to mention peoples lives, are playing the electioneering game to its full despicable limit.
Jack and co were elected to represent the people, at which they have failed spectacularly. The theme they use regarding drugs seems to be substitution; (albeit this time it's the method instead of the substance) so following that theme they should be prepared for a substitution of Government next year.
Make Your Vote count in May.Report as unsuitable
27. c.u jimmy, glasgow / 10:27am 17 Dec 2006
We need the toughest policy ever on the Mr Bigs Minimum 25year sentice,all assets stripped,couriers minimum 20year sentice all assets stripped,street dealers minimum 15years.this is our biggest challenge it;s gone on far too long lets bite the bullit and start now.c'mon Hollyrood rise to the challenge every decent Scot has had enough!Report as unsuitable
28. Tobydawg, Here & there / 10:34am 17 Dec 2006
It's time to get the gloves off.Report as unsuitable
29. Trotter, Stonehouse / 10:57am 17 Dec 2006
Guga, I costs the NHS about £3000 for an overnight stay at A and E. This is common place with injecting drug users. As is crime, prostitution and blood borne disease (think of the cost of treatment for AIDs and HIV). All this adds up to a far greater cost than methadone, which costs about a quid a bottle!
On the whole, methadone is a cheap and effective answer. Alright the patients are on it for years, but it is cheaper and safer than the alternative.
Guga/Richard, I think you guys are referring to Naloxone which blocks the effects of Heroin, Morphine, Methadone etc. I would precipitate withdrawal, but I guarantee they will all be injecting by the end of the week if this approach was tried without looking at the psychological side of addiction (see Whistle Berries, 7.).
I agree that this is all about votes in the election and dishing out methadone, or indeed heroin, on the NHS will be the realistic future.Report as unsuitable
30. onaboat dee, gulf o mexico / 11:06am 17 Dec 2006
#K No.8 30 % ,Where do you get this figure from?,but I agree with you on your ideas.We as a nation can´t possibly do is mainstream heroin into an overstreched NHS ,if you do this it won´t get rid of drug dealers as there is a thing in the human brain called greed ,people will stil steal /sell sex ect for more ,if you give the drugs for free people who want more are going to end up payig a higher price for the fix ,its simple ecomomics demand and supply.This new approach won´t work either ,drugs in UK are easy to obtain ,yes people are like sheep in away that 1 follows the other.I think that we should teach children the hard facts in schools at an early age ( primary school) ,let a drug addict try to talk to kids about drugs ,show DVDs of them when they are high ,show photos of them before they were on drugs and let the kids see what they look like now ,for sure any kid can seee for themselfs the impact that drugs have on life in the community.We should start a sports/rec program for school leavers so that they attend monthly to see ex class mates until the age of 21 ,that way they are still bonded in a way to there own generation and try to aspire to the good of ther own generation ,and put back on track if they should stray,social inclusion with people of the same age group is a big thing that gets overlooked ,i.e so and so is doing well for themselfs ect ect.Glass in jail is a great idea ,I don´t know why we don´t have it!Also no parole for 2nd time offenders should be law.Commit the crime do the time beware.Report as unsuitable
31. jacky, England / 11:22am 17 Dec 2006
Another load of election spin and hot air from those who have been responsible for the 'downgrading' of drug culture in this country!
What about tackling the grass routes of the problem, restricting the free flow of drugs into this country from places like Afghanistan, or would that create an economic problem for Aghanistan seeing that 80 per cent of their heroin finishes up on our streets?Report as unsuitable
32. S.A.M, glasgow / 11:45am 17 Dec 2006
The goverment are sitting high and looking low.This drug problem doesn't affect them!Don't be so sure, if a drug dealer gets the chance your child is just as vulnerable as the rest.
time to wipe out the BIG MENReport as unsuitable
33. JD, Glasgow / 12:20pm 17 Dec 2006
Quote (Scottish ministers will shortly unveil a manifesto pledge to crack down on the drugs crisis should they be returned to power following May's Holyrood election. )
This is not about the Drug Crisis.. It's all about getting re elected.
If the Scottish Ministers were really concerned, they would be Cracking down on the drug crisis.. NOW instead of waiting till May..
If we were gullible enough to believe this.. and re elect them.. you can be sure that they would then come up with a reason for NOT fulfilling .. yet another ..promiseReport as unsuitable
34. Douglas, Bathgate / 12:28pm 17 Dec 2006
They're called dealers now but used to be pushers, a more accurate and understandable job description.To grow their business, their product constantly has introductory offers to bring in new customers. The same methods used by the (slightly) more benign supermarkets work on the street too. Free samples, buy one get one free, short term credit, home delivery, smaller "local" outlets.If the government wanted to shut down Tesco they wouldn't piss about checking sales in a local store, they'd be banging on the door at head office looking for the people in charge, cutting off supply and control. The people at the top of the drug chain MUST be known to our authorities or we quite simply need new people in charge. Either make the reasons for inaction public and a matter of record, or get on with the job they are paid to do.Mind you, it just crossed my mind that, if the trail lead back to say, Saudi Arabia, then with the gutless actions of the last few days still smelling in the corner, we would end up back at square one as per usual.Report as unsuitable
35. Kitty, Edinburgh / 1:03pm 17 Dec 2006
It's time the government had the courage to stand up to the policy of despair which is the methadone programme. Methadone is synthetic heroin and much more addictive and physically damaging than natural heroin. It's just a cute way of giving addicts their fix for free to get them off the crime cycle thus making our communties marginally safer. It's not intended as a means of helping addicts get clean. The irony is that it doesn't even work as a means of stemming the anti-social side effects but makes them worse by encouraging and even creating heroin addiction.Report as unsuitable
36. Sanny, Portugal / 1:06pm 17 Dec 2006
Having read the article and the various comments on it I have to agree first, that the timing shows the NL’s intention is about vote grabbing with little or no concern for the victims of this horrible addiction.
I recall an incident over twenty years ago when Holland had a very relaxed attitude to ‘street drugs’. I was a work assignment in Amsterdam at the time and I was horrified at the number of people, foreigner’s mainly, who were constantly stoned. On leaving my hotel very early one morning I experienced the ultimate horror of having to step over the body of a young man who had died of an overdose. There is not and can never be a justification for legalising this trade.
We desperately need to take a holistic approach to the problem and consider the need of both the victim, for that’s what junkies are, and the public. We need to take advice from medical experts, law enforcement and ex-users, based on their input we need to conduct urgent research into the causes, treatment and prevention of addiction.
Some have mentioned the supply and demand cycle, claiming if there were no demand there would be no supply. Consider the marketing of a new product. The manufacturer doesn’t just put it in a shop or catalogue in the hope that people will buy it. No, the product is “pushed” by advertising and initial low cost deals to generate the demand. Hence the term 'drug pusher'.
When the product is “In Demand” the prices can increase and everybody in the supply chain does well but the guy who does best is the manufacturer. No manufacturer, no supply chain and eventually no demand.
In the Far East you are warned before entering the country that possession of [Dada] Drugs means death. Personally I’m not happy with the death penalty for any crime. However I think we need a new and possibly draconian approach to the problem of drug supply. Some are advocating sentencing people according to their position in the drug supply chain. I would modify this to 25 years for supply reduced to 5 years and early parole if evidence is provided to convict the next man up the chain until we get to the “clean” people who finance this trade. Remove the head and the body will surely die!!Report as unsuitable
37. Bram Seer, All of Scotland / 1:10pm 17 Dec 2006
Cold turkey for Christmas,does this mean that in Scotland they get cold Steak pie for New Year,joking apart,the whole drug problem is really out of control.
It is interesting that even with the presence of the UN forces in Afghanistan, the Afghans et al have produce and exported a greater tonnage of opium this year than ever before.I would suggest in order to stop this deadly trade the World Health Organisation should buy all of the supplies of Heroin on the World market then destroy it,this would work towards completely controlling the market and destroying the dealers.... perhaps we should be thinking with our heads to solve this problem, not force of arms in the end it will be economically and environmentally more sound. It worked well for the Chinese Nation in the late 19th century,it certainly stopped the dealers from running it in from India,who were the dealers? the British government of course.Report as unsuitable
38. nottoobrite / 2:21pm 17 Dec 2006
No. 9. Yes Sir you are on the right track,if the idiot policy makers would come down from there roosts and look at the countries in the world that have a successful drug policy, but these new policies are just a way to get your hand in the goverments bottomless pocket. Singapore got rid of its drug problem, it hung scores of dealers, amid all the publicity it said if you want to do drugs, fine, but not here go to some other country, showing continually commercials on TV drug addicts in conditions that would make anyone vomit. Bring it out in the open, show the ulcers, aids, filth, dispair that these people live in , and remind the government that jail is not a holiday camp but a place where you put people to insure the safety of all citizens of good intent.Report as unsuitable
39. old soldier, Black Isle / 2:31pm 17 Dec 2006
Cure all addiction and all dealers with one bullet eachReport as unsuitable
40. Patrick/Edinburgh, here and there / 3:00pm 17 Dec 2006
As always with a main story from the Scotsman.comthe listings in the comments show me realistic attitudes from the community. Because I read your words of national pride, national pride is a reflection of the communities as a whole. The communities can not be continually disolved by practices that are unjust to the community. Herion use is a deadly force against a community, just as much as the terriost threat Scotland can face. Just as slow, just as sneaky, then with horrible consequences. There can be a systematic appraoch that can be continually adjusted through public policy and practice. It's a chess game against those of addiction, however a deadly one. The philosophical reasonings one can gain will produce a better overall strategy across the board. Looking at herion drug addiction as a chess battle is a good philosophical approach. I am stating the strengths against addiction lie in the communities. Does government wish to support the communites against hard drug addiction? What increments can be applied do defend against heroin addiction?
There has to be an over-all assesment to the point at where Scotland is in it's reference to the history and the metamorphosis of herion addiction and it's use in todays society. That is where one can begin to adjust the problem. Which seems to be the attitude in Scotland is how to adjust the problem.If one were to ask me which increment I would apply first:I would say hit in the welfare state. Making sure that those in the welfare state are subject to drug tests!
Second: Immigration; You have to fight terriorism, is there any doubt who has to be kept out?
Third: Education; continue to teach the kids and adults to speak Gaelic
Your friendPatrickReport as unsuitable
41. Paula / 3:04pm 17 Dec 2006
A common sense idea but lets see if it actually happens.
There is something far wrong in a country that will spend £12m on methadone for druggies yet a poor wee girl has to fight to receive NHS treatment for an illness that was not through her own actions. That £12m would go to treating more worthwhile illnesses rather than being wasted on druggies.Report as unsuitable
42. Martha / 3:20pm 17 Dec 2006
There are pros and cons to every argument about drug addiction, but to me, The Netherlands experiment proves that legalizing drugs and providing them free for addicts simply does not work. Amsterdam is an open sewer at this point in history.
Withdrawal is a long and painful process, and some scientists claim that even those who have successfully fought their way through it are still addicts, just as recovered alcoholics are.
The US approach is to stop it at the borders, which with our large porous borders is a joke. There are very stiff prison sentences for dealers, however, when caught--if they aren't killed by fellow dealers first.
As for the druggies, they manage to prove Darwin's theory of survival of the gittest over and over again. Most of them die decades before their time.
But from a public health perspective, drug use introduces very serious, incurable diseases into the population: Hepatitis C and HIV/AIDS come immediately to mind. There is also the tremendous social waste, and the tax money spent trying to treat and rehabilitate these people.
In spite of all the drug education that is mandatory in public schools here, the drug addiction phenomenon continues unabated. There is some unidentified reason or collection of reasons for it, aside from the obvious reason that criminals make money dealing the poisons.Report as unsuitable
43. nolimits, Canada / 3:53pm 17 Dec 2006
I wonder, just wonder, if any of you above or in Gov't have an addict in their immediate family. PLEASE understand that addicts cannot be forced to quit. It is a decision only they can make. I speak from experience.Alcohol and drug addiction share common themes. Only the addict can make the choice to quit! Period! Support must be in place to make the transition a little easier. It is not easy, to see a son or a daughter caught in the net, and trying to help them out of it. Support, Support, Support. Sooo.... Don't judge untill you've been there and done it.Report as unsuitable
44. mv / 4:04pm 17 Dec 2006
"In a dramatic policy U-turn,"
Hmm, must be an election coming up, prepare for more dramatic u-turns (well as least smokescreens...)Report as unsuitable
45. conservative / 4:21pm 17 Dec 2006
Just empty labour vessels rumbling. Not a clue amongst the lot of them but desperate to hang onto their well-paid jobs.
Drugs are illegal. Jail all pushers and addicts. If they reoffend jail them again for longer. I'll happily pay more taxes for more prisons to keep this filth off our streets.Report as unsuitable
46. siusaidh / 4:35pm 17 Dec 2006
Perhaps instead of getting addicts off herion and onto other drugs, should be avoided and get them to replace herion with therapeutic essential oils and various massage therapies....then at least they'd learn to get healthy again.Just think on how much is spend on pharmacytical drugs each year, when essential oils would work much more efficient and have no damage to the enviroment.Report as unsuitable
47. St Monance, Canada / 4:53pm 17 Dec 2006
Isn't Peterhead Prison the best in the world for its cure rate on addicts? Why not learn from them: if the European court would let you . . .Report as unsuitable
48. Mahem, Land of plenty / 5:07pm 17 Dec 2006
The best movie ever made with regards to heroin addiction - "Train Spotting" Play it on a continuous loop on television and eventually the message will get throughReport as unsuitable
49. AlphaNEIL, UK / 5:53pm 17 Dec 2006
Where do all these drug addicts get money, do they have jobs with investment banks or the Scottish executive? Maybe the last one was a bad example.
Stop giving beggars money on the street. Prosecute criminals that are robbing houses and stores. And finally, get rid of the drugs in prisons. I know we started the opium trade, but why do we STILL have a problem with drug abuse, we are FAR to tolerant of those people, they are getting the money to feed their habit somehow!Report as unsuitable
50. Richard, West Lothian / 6:29pm 17 Dec 2006
I notice Martha your really big in coming down on the supply side but what about the demand side maybe that explains the persistence of the problem.
Until you get rid of the demand then the market is there to be supplied and I can't see demand ever going away. Look what happened during prohibition, drive a market underground into the arms of organized crime.........Not a good outcome.Report as unsuitable
51. Harry Carnie, British Columbia ,Canada. / 6:38pm 17 Dec 2006
#13 Andrew. You are correct. A little glimmer of common sense in all the "rant" of those with their heads up....( aaah..better say, in the sand). No,.. no politician will ever do this.. they maintain the attitude of their voters...even if it is just bloody stupid.Report as unsuitable
52. scotsdoc, NANAIMO BC CANADA / 7:04pm 17 Dec 2006
Cold turkey WILL NOT WORK!!...
Addicts are exhibiting an inherited diathesis. At 76 I will not live long enough to see if my prediction is correct but I have been dealing with drugs since I was a kid in Edinburgh(My mother was a Doctor too). Society needs to change it's attitude to addicts. As a kid, narcotics were fairly easy to come by, as were 'Bromides' and the barbiturates. Kids used to sing 'Honey have a sniff on me.. Honey have a sniff on me' Society back then had a bemused tolerance of addicts and drugs were cheap( today Legal Morphine in Canada is about 50 cents an ampoule - heroin is illegal).
Canada's Army Song book had "Cocaine Bill and Morphine Sue......." as late as the '50's.
Society has changed, prohibition and criminalization have forced up the costs for the addicts who now have a doubled problem addiction and extortionate cost. Addicts have thus deteriorated and the overall drug scene has collapsed into DRUG GANG WARS, SUBVERTED ENFORCEMENT, STONED PROSTITUTES and Glory days for the POLICE, Legal establishment and Prison System. These three latter all flourish on the backs of the poor long suffering addicts.
Education from Kindergarten on and legalization are the only ways forward.Addicts must be held legally responsible for their actions under the influence.
Addicts have now become societies worst HIV and Tuberculosis problem and unless the whole scene is legalized and the criminality of drug use removed I can only see the situation deteriorating further.
YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANNOT FORCE IT TO DRINK!!Report as unsuitable
53. Sambo, The deep south / 7:11pm 17 Dec 2006
Unbelievable, that out of 5,000,000 people, do the math! for every man woman and child in Scotland 1 out of 1 hundred are on heroin?Report as unsuitable
54. Sambo, The deep south / 7:17pm 17 Dec 2006
Scotland needs to prepare funds to build more prisons, the kids I saw this year on my annual visit are out of control, so how can you talk about independence when your younger generation are running amuck. PRIORITIES!Report as unsuitable
55. Angus Mor, God's Own Island / 7:22pm 17 Dec 2006
Not just heroin Sambo, smack, scag and other other "injectable" and "smokeable" addictive.
But yeah, 1 in 100 of us are addicted to class A illegal drugs.
Good stat huh?Report as unsuitable
56. Angus Mor, God's Own Island / 7:25pm 17 Dec 2006
Sambo
It's the loonie lefty liberals that caused the chaos in our country. They told us not to hit each other, not to hit/smack our kids, not to use draconian discipline methods, to tolerate everybody. To recognise that pedophiles have a mental disease and to also give children the same rights as adults, rights that us Adults had to earn when I was a kid.
The funny thing is, these dogooding loonie lefty liberals are now prisoners in their own homes bacuase of out of control kids etc.Report as unsuitable
57. Big Bri, London / 7:35pm 17 Dec 2006
Can anyone tell me what exactly is the official excuse for our prisons to be awash with drugs (that is no exageration) when common sense tells me that they should be the one place that drugs should never be.
Prison visits are one way that drugs come in - but surely there must be a serious problem with corruption in the prison service.Report as unsuitable
58. Richard, West Lothian / 7:40pm 17 Dec 2006
How many of us are addicted to legal drugs which cause, more death and social misery, and to say different is to deny the obvious.Report as unsuitable
59. mick3, Minnesota, USA / 7:40pm 17 Dec 2006
The worst of the drug problem is that most of them shouldn't be illegal. Aside from the privacy issue, legal drugs would be cheap enough that addicts wouldn't have to resort to crime to support their habit. Many famous people, inclduding the putative father of modern surgery, have been life-long addicts without ruining their own or anyone else's lives. Unfortunately, politicians are more concerned with themselves and their careers than the millions of people whose lives are ruined, not by drugs, but by the war on drugs, originated by US politicians, originally as a race issue against Mexicans.Report as unsuitable
60. Jiimpoo, Tallinn / 7:42pm 17 Dec 2006
No 5 I think you're thinking of Narcan ( naloxone )which has been around for many yearsReport as unsuitable
61. Sanny, Portugal and Glasgow / 7:56pm 17 Dec 2006
Big Bri, LondonI may be wrong on this, fortunately I don’t know much about prisons, but didn’t this government put the prisons into private hands?We need to know how drugs get into prison. If it is by passing from visitors there are two possible solutions I can think of 1/ Glass screened cubicles so there can be no contact between visitor and prisoner. 2/ Abolish prison visiting!If it’s not Visitors then it must be the warders. In which case find them charge then and jail them for a very long time. Random searches on Warders might be a good idea.Report as unsuitable
62. Jiimpoo, Tallinn / 8:02pm 17 Dec 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcan Report as unsuitable
63. John Loftus, Limerick / 8:17pm 17 Dec 2006
After reading some of the most ridiculous,narrow-minded,blinkered drivel,about a subject that most of you have little real experience of.I'm shocked that there is very little humanity shown by most of these opinionators.The only person who seems to have a bit of a clue is #43,because he's been there & knows what addiction is about.People take drugs,including alcohol,because they make them feel good.So,no matter what any government does,there will always be a market for them.Locking people up for a long time or executing them doesn't work as a detterent.Many countries have tried this,but illicit drugs means big money.So therefore they will always exist.The biggest dealers are rich businessmen & not the archetypal scumbag,that most of you seem to have in your very narrow minds.They are rarely jailed,as they will always try to save their own skins & stick in those lower down the chain.So the best thing this"government"can do,is stop trying to keep a hold on their addiction to power,with any seemingly"popular"policy promises & really look at real ways to help those with drug addiction problems.And the rest of you heartless souls,we all have problems sometimes,so think twice before you want to kick someone when they are down.Report as unsuitable
64. John Loftus, Limerick / 8:32pm 17 Dec 2006
Sorry scotsdoc,I hadn't read your comment before I wrote my piece.But you too have a decent brain in your head.Those poor girls in Suffolk would not be dead today, if they didn't have to prostitute themselves to get drugs & if we hadn't looked at their problem with a negative attitude.Report as unsuitable
65. Jemma, USA, for now............... / 9:13pm 17 Dec 2006
#7 - Whistle Berries, Marysville, WA, USA / 3:30am 17 Dec 2006 wrote...The 'addicts' and/or alcoholics, need psychiatric intervention to find the underlying cause as to why people ‘need’ to “self-medicate.”
As a psychotherapist I can honestly say looking for "why" addicts/alcoholics use substances is a wast of time. The "why" is because they are addicts/alcoholics. You can spend years on a therapists couch ruminating (navel-contemplating I call it) on WHY...it doesn't change the fact that you are. Why do I have brown eyes? Because my father did. Does that mean that now I know why I can change them to blue? NO! It means I have to accept brown and live with it.
Just like an addict/alcoholic has to accept that life can be an arse-kicker and that substances are not the solution to life's problems. When they can do that they can get clean and sober.
HOW to get clean and sober is the question...treatment centers, self-help groups, churches, whatever it takes.Report as unsuitable
66. drake's drum, North Britain / 9:13pm 17 Dec 2006
John Loftus Limerick: Pish! (In the Jane Austin sense of course). Some people are lucky enough to be rich and stupid - they take drugs because they can't amuse themselves or want to be 'crazy(man)'. Others are poor and stupid, and see drugs as a way out of a boring and unrewarding life (when compared with those they read about in the red tops and see on mong TV).The rest of us are either rich and lucky and have a brain, or are poor, hard working and have a brain.BUT, we all face the danger of our families being destroyed by drug-pushing/using scum/idiots who surround us in this imploding 'best small country' where 1% (try 5 times that probably) are junkies.Death penalty, no sympathy and willingness to see self-inflicted scummery result in a life literally in the gutter. The abstinence message will soon become apparent to the naive taker, and the death penalty a deterrent/solution to the pusher.Goodnight Limerick.Report as unsuitable
67. Cheryl, New York State / 9:21pm 17 Dec 2006
#13, thanks for popping into the Real World for a moment to comment from whatever alternate reality you reside in, because following the scheme you suggest would bring only more trouble and strife.
You want the NHS to provide a highly addictive and destructive substance? Have you thought about the long-term effects of that? NHS costs would skyrocket due to addicts needing more and more heroin to acheive the same effect and eroin destroys your body and mind. Scotland would see NHS costs skyrocket due to the health care costs associated with treating the various ills of addicts. Then there's the economic cost Scotland would pay because people would attempt to work while high, making them far more likely to do very stupid and dangerous things or, at the very least, making a total dog's breakfast of whatever they work on, and the number of people who would not be able to workbecause they were too sick due to chronic heroin use.
Let's not forget what the rest of the world would think of Scotland. Yes, nothing like being seen as the heroin capital of the world to improve your image on the world stage.
I cannot see where you'd get the idea crime would go down. Yes, you'd eliminate dealers. Theft would not go down, as addicts who need their fix will do what they need to do to get it, nor would prostitution to any real degree. There are other drugs out there women are hooked on and sell their bodies to support their habit. The only change in crime you'd see would be an increase in heroin-related crimes.
"Without drug pushers, the number of new addicts each year will steadily fall."
The NHS would take the place of the drug dealer on the corner, so there would still be a dealer and if it's much more readily avaliable, you're going to see more people doing heroin.
No politician with sense would ever support legalizing heroin (so no surprise it's been proposed by the current government). The damage to Scotland such a thing would cause greatly outweighs any theoretical benefits.
If you're going to legalize heroin, you should legalize all other drugs which drive addicts to do pretty much anything to support their habit. Thinking of a Scotland where cocaine, heroin, and pot are all legal, to name only three, fills me with horror.Report as unsuitable
68. Tam the Bam, Neverland / 9:52pm 17 Dec 2006
Although some heroin addicts come from middle class or upper class families, the vast majority come from poor or deprived areas. How many addicts are there is Morningside as compared to Wester Hailes? Drug addiction the world over is a problem associated with poverty. Get rid of poverty and you'll go a long way to getting rid of addiction.Report as unsuitable
69. Angus Mor, God's Own Island / 10:06pm 17 Dec 2006
I don't think Morningside addicts would admit to having a problem. Too posh for that!Report as unsuitable
70. Rabhairt, Cannons Creek Australia / 10:16pm 17 Dec 2006
Heroin is the drug of Satan. It does not know colour , race, social standing or age. the Government authorities have to concentrate on the MR BIGS who are making the large profits and can afford to pay "officials" off. Last week , here in the State of Victoria the last of seven detectives, members of the special crimes unit were sent to prison for up to seven years for drug dealing; this is a WORLD PROBLEM and is destroying lives, billions have been spent on a uselss war in Iraq, heroin is the product of only a few countries and a trade boycot on them would not be a bad start.Report as unsuitable
71. judas, midlothian / 10:46pm 17 Dec 2006
Neil McKeganey is a researcher who has never treated a drug addict in his life. What makes him an expert on the right kind of treatment? If the government were really being brave instead of reacting to newspaper headlines and McKeganey's ravings they would introduce comsumption rooms and heroin perscribing. They are doing it down south but our lot are cowards. They pander to the press. They are talking bollocks now. You only have to look at the USA where they adopted a zero tolerance approach. IT DONT WORK!!!!!Report as unsuitable
72. Sanny, Portugal and Glasgow / 11:04pm 17 Dec 2006
63. John Loftus, Limerick:
Before you slag of every poster perhaps you should have the courtesy to read their contribution.
For instance, if you read my post #36, in the third paragraph I identify the addict as a victim and propose a holistic approach to treatment or control. The remainder of this contribution is about a method to get at the men in pinstriped suits who are clean and pillars of society; but are the main benefactors of the trade in drugs. In a later post @ #61 I address the problem in prisons.
I do not claim to be an expert nor do any of the other posters we simply suggest what we believe to be commonsense approaches to a difficult problem.Report as unsuitable
73. NorT, Edinburgh / 11:05pm 17 Dec 2006
The war on drugs is lost. Legalise them like tobacco and alcohol. This would save millions in enforcements costs, millions in prisons places, ensure purity of supply and they could be taxed. Also as the druggies could get them over the counter using a smart card the price could be controlled to a reasonabvble level and the dealers would be put out of business overnight.However no government is brave enough to undertake this step.Report as unsuitable
74. Independant, Anna Quebec / 11:06pm 17 Dec 2006
Very complicated problem this. For those of you who advocate a drastic policy, I suggest you go to an open AA meeting or Narcotics Anonymous meeting.
Some people think that 10% of the population are addictive personalities. So if that is true all layers of society are liable to be affected. So priests, doctors, judges - all can be addicted. I guess the poor are more evident because they don't have the money to hide it. So most of the people on this discussion today must have at least one relative who is an addict. So think about it. Would your solution help your Mom if she had an alcohol, cocaine, heroin or sleeping pill addiction?
In my family, it was my two parents with an addiction to alcohol. Call it a disease, an addiction, what you will, the effects are devastating to families, employers and society.
A little compassion please, especially for the families who see their members go down the drain. You don't have to shoot the addicts, they're slowly killing themselves.Report as unsuitable
75. Jules, Hampshire / 11:10pm 17 Dec 2006
Iam an addictions counsellor and I wish the answer to substance addiction was as simple as so many of you think it is. Every addict/alcoholic is an individual and they each respond to treatment in their individual ways. I've seen people do surprisingly well and others do surprisingly badly. Some will do well with cold turkey, some will stay on methadone for years and others will respond well to a Subutex detox. We need a range of treatments to be available to meet the needs of the individual.
As a society the UK's biggest substance misuse problem is still alcohol; 8 million problem drinkers as opposed to approx 300 000 problem drug users (UK figures). Need I remind you that alcohol is, and will probably always be, legal in this country.If the answer really is as simple as some of you think then let me know, it will make my job a lot easier!Report as unsuitable
76. Sanny, Portugal and Glasgow / 11:31pm 17 Dec 2006
71. judas, Midlothian:From results thus far it would seem that those “experts” are not having much success despite their efforts. This would seem to suggest that they are not on the right track and need to consider other approaches.
You suggestion has a touch of lunacy about it I suggest you read again this post 67. Cheryl, New York State:
I think I read in my Science Magazine some time ago that they had identified a drug that would prevent Heroin from having any effect and obviate the need for a “fix”. It could have been Coke I’m not sure. I do believe that the greedy pharmaceutical world could be encouraged to find such a treatment if the prize was big enough.
In the mean time we should try to control the supply side. It may not be as difficult as you imagine. If we were to advise poppy growing countries that we would give them aid or buy their crops at a price that equaled what the farmer gets for the poppy extract or alternatively we would bomb them with Agent Orange which would destroy the poppies. This would make a difference from dropping HE and blowing them to pieces.It’s not rocket science; I’m sure we could create a herbicide that only affected the poppy and was otherwise relatively safe.Report as unsuitable
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Should Pedophiles and other Individuals who commit Crimes against their Community have the Right to Refuse to be placed on a Sex Offenders Registry?

2006-12-03T23:59:00.001-04:00

We hear so much about the Absolute right of the Individual person in our Community society and of course, Our World and to an extent I agree with them, but when it comes to the rights of those individuals in our society who commit crimes against children or anyone for that matter, I find myself asking the question where do we as a law abiding and decent society draw the fine line.

We have Men and women who have hurt the innocent, the young and the most Vulnerable in our Community, and they only get a slap on the wrist or, a couple of years, and It costs more to put these Predatoy through the Federal, and the provincial Justice System Then it it does for the everyday run of the mill convict.

The Reason for this is because of the huge Finalcial is because of the Protectiuon that is required for these individuals to serve their time without getting murdered or, just beaten up by other Members of the Prison opulation. I believe That these need to be monitored at all times because many of them have proven that can no longer stopthe sexual offences that they have been acustomed to for so many years.

I donnot think that these people need to be abused them selves but the do need to be watched at all times to ensure that they are not a threat to the Community or Society in which they live

I also believe that these individuals need to wear anckle Braceletts, but they should and must be obbligated and required by Law to Register with a Public Sex offender's Registry upon release from Incarseration from Prison or any other Facility in which they have served a Sentence for this kind of a Chrime.

I believe that the Only Solution barring a life-long monitoring process is an opportuhity for these individuals to surrender to

Below is a News article frjm the Saturday December 2nd edition of the "Fredericton Daily Gleaner", on the issue of Sex Offenders.

Daily Gleaner (Fredericton)

(2006-12-02)

(News)

Fredericton third in registered sex offenders - report; Ranking Officer says city residents needn't fret
Fredericton ranks third in New Brunswick for having the most registered sex offenders within its boundaries.
Figures released Friday by the National Sex Offender Registry Office at RCMP J Division reveal that three per cent of the 400 registered offenders in this province are residing within the boundaries of the capital city.
Cpl. David Ward of the RCMP's registry's office said residents shouldn't be alarmed.
"These people are only individuals who are identified under the Sex Offender (Information) Registration Act," Ward said in an interview.
"You have to keep in mind that there are other individuals who have been convicted of similar offences long before these (people) were, and they are still residing in the area. This is certainly nothing that individuals need to be concerned about."
Moncton, which is home to 12 per cent of the province's registered sex offenders, leads the province. Saint John places second at six per cent.
Ward said figures for the Moncton area are high because of the close proximity to federal institutions at Westomorland and Dorchester. Offenders there, many of whom are from outside New Brunswick, are serving related sentences.
Ward said the overall figure for the province may seem high, but not all of those cases have happened here.
"Approximately one-third of them are offences that occurred outside of New Brunswick," he said.
"However, the individuals may be serving their time at the federal institutions in (this province)."
Since the inception of Sex Offender Information Registration Act almost two years ago, more than 14,000 names have been recorded in the national registry. The service is maintained by the RCMP and is available to all police forces.
Provisions contained within the act say a person may be required to remain registered for 10 years, 20 years or life. It all depends on the maximum length of the sentence.
Information such as addresses and telephone numbers, offences, aliases, identifying marks and tattoos of convicted sex offenders are included in the database.
Ward said what makes the Canadian registry different from the one in the United States is the information here isn't available to the public.
This prevents acts such as the one committed last April by Stephen Marshall. The Cape Breton man who gunned down two sex offenders in Maine after locating them on the U.S. online registry.
"It is intended as an investigative tool to police officers only when they are investigating a specific crime of a sexual nature," Ward said. "We do not want to see vigilante justice, which is what we saw here with the Marshall case. "
Ron Morris, a criminal lawyer in Fredericton, said he feels the registry is a violation of a person's rights.
Morris, who has debated the matter in court, said he doesn't buy the argument that the information is private and the public won't have access to it.
"I think that's a bunch of crap," Morris said. "I don't think they can keep something secret like that, no matter what they say. If they can trade it (information) with other agencies, somewhere there's a chance that it's going to get out to the public and give this (person) a form of punishment that he shouldn't have to endure.
"By doing his sentence, he has paid his debt to society. Why should the axe be hanging over his head?"
Morris said he also doesn't like that people who have been convicted on less serious matters are being lumped in with the hard-core sex offenders.
"There's a difference between the more serious predators and someone who is less serious. Why should a person who has completed their summary conviction offence sentence have this hanging over their heads for 10 years?"
Offenders are required to re-register annually and to keep officials informed of address or legal-name changes. If they fail to comply, they face a variety of penalties.

By MICHAEL STAPLES

- End of Article -

A bit about the Blog Auther

2006-12-02T06:37:00.000-04:00

Hello, My name is Michael G. Mckay I just thought I would introduce myself and let you know how much I appreciate you stopping by for look see. I have always tried to stick to the issues of concern to myself and others in the community and not to degrade the person or individual character of the person in the Public Eye.

I main purpose of this blog is to speak out on the issues that we all face as Residence of new Brunswick, and especially s it affects the most vulnerable in our Society, such as the Poor and forgotten among us. Thanks once agtain for dropping in and if you have any ideas of topics or, issues you think I should address, please drop me an email My email is mgmckay@nbnet.nb.ca

Most sincerely!

Michael G. McKay